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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Colorado Hill Climb Association Round 1: Temple Canyon Hill Climb
AWD:
1 - Waples/Hodgson - $475.09
2 - Moberly/Greek - $353.99
3 - Whitman/McConnell - $288.78
Remaining 7 places - $102.47

2WD:
1 - Conley/Rudolph - $437.83
2 - Leonard/Kneipp - $353.99
3 - Gillaspy/Daniher - $270.15
Remaining 6 places - $102.47

Top 10 payouts
2 - Waples/Hodgson - $252
3 - Moberly/Greek - $204
5 - Whitman/McConnell - $108
8 - Kern/Kern - $36
9 - Regester/Smith - $24

Entry fee - $175 per event
License fee - $60 driver, $50 codriver

Just to point out, the top AWD driver, Jason Waples took home $725.
Also to note, they charge for spectators/non-competitors (including service crew),which brought in over $3000 in income.
 

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hillbilly
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generally how many entries do you guys see at CHCA events?

in the NEHA series we pretty much needed 35 paid entries(@$125) to just break even, forget making a profit or having a purse.
 

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eating dust taking photos
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generally how many entries do you guys see at CHCA events?

in the NEHA series we pretty much needed 35 paid entries(@$125) to just break even, forget making a profit or having a purse.
~20 rally cars, but there are other classes.

The total entries are upper 60s to low 90s and normally right around 80...
 

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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This event was exactly 80 entries. 21 rally cars.
Other classes are Sportsman, Pro Quad, Comp Truck, Super Sprint, Stock Car, Champ Car, and Open Comp. Each class determines it's own payout structure. Prior to 06, we evenly split our purse to all entries, negating everyone's entry fee, but as it got more competitive and to continue increased competitiveness, we decided to reward the top three, but still give something back to everyone. Seeing as the top 5 AWD all broke the old record and were only a few seconds between them it's worked.
The rally cars are all required to be built to Rally America rulebook specs, but are allowed to remove restrictors and catalytic converters.
 

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too bad that there arent more than a handfull of areas that can host viable hillclimb series.

and doubly too bad that i live in fargo, north dakota.
 

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and doubly too bad that i live in fargo, north dakota.
Its probably easier for you to haul to Colorado for a HC than most rally events though! (food for thought)

I live in Duluth, MN and there are a handfull of roads that would be awesome for a hillclimb...but Duluth is so politically charged that I gave up trying to make that happen. all up and down the mississippi, st crouix, and minnesota rivers are hills for the hillclimbing. We just have to make these things happen.
 

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If I lived closer to Colorado, that's all I'd be doing too, HILLCLIMBS!

Wife retires in a couple of years. Wonder if I can talk her into moving!
 

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Premium Member
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Hi Grant,

I peek in the CO forum every now and again to see what you CO guys are up to (usually no good !!), so had seen you guys talking about this before. Hillclimbs sound like a lot of fun !!!

Some questions:

- if the average effective entry fee is $0 (prior to 06, entry fees were refunded, thereafter distributed more towards those who are more competitive), how does the organizer pay for the costs normally associated with a rally e.g. insurance, EMTs etc. ?

- how many miles long is "the stage" ?

- how many times do you get to recce the stage beforehand ?

- how many times do you get to run the stage competitively ?

Thanks.
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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- if the average effective entry fee is $0 (prior to 06, entry fees were refunded, thereafter distributed more towards those who are more competitive), how does the organizer pay for the costs normally associated with a rally e.g. insurance, EMTs etc. ?
They take our entry fees and proceeds from ticket sales into a pool, pay the event fees, and whatever's left over is paid back to the competitors. In reality, the first few years we did the evenly split prize pool, the rally drivers were paying $150 in entry fees and we got back between $125-175. If someone crashed out on Saturday, they didn't take part in the race-day payouts, so that explains the $175 we got back at one of the events.

how many miles long is "the stage" ?
Depends on the event, some about 2.5 miles, others are closer to 5.

how many times do you get to recce the stage beforehand ?
Recce is unlimited. We typically show up late afternoon, unload the trailer and get out pit spot staked out, then head up to recce until it gets dark. For us that usually means it 2-5 times, and write our notes from scratch each year.

how many times do you get to run the stage competitively ?
3-5 runs on practice day, and 2 on race day.

Dave
 

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Left 4 into beachball
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Stop wasting your time on the computer and get that subie put back together!

go faster.
That's the plan. :) I got the Ohlins on the car and its worlds better than the stock suspension that was on the car at Temple Canyon. Car's now got diffs too.

Dave
 

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eating dust taking photos
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Hi Grant,

I peek in the CO forum every now and again to see what you CO guys are up to (usually no good !!), so had seen you guys talking about this before. Hillclimbs sound like a lot of fun !!!

Some questions:

- if the average effective entry fee is $0 (prior to 06, entry fees were refunded, thereafter distributed more towards those who are more competitive), how does the organizer pay for the costs normally associated with a rally e.g. insurance, EMTs etc. ?

- how many miles long is "the stage" ?

- how many times do you get to recce the stage beforehand ?

- how many times do you get to run the stage competitively ?

Thanks.
Here is what you have to remember when looking at the payouts.

These organizers only have to close one road and a place for the pits to be plus their insurance. They cover the EMTs but most of the safety net is volunteers. They also pay for a water truck to water the course to keep the dust down (or for 2008 they pay for the water as one of the Rally teams owns an excavating company and is donating the use of a water truck in exchange for comped entries).

The costs are far less than your average rally because the events are so more compact.

Then you factor in that each paid entry gets 3 people, including the drivers into the event, the rest have to pay the $10-12.00 at the gate to get in. Factor in a couple hundred to 400+ spectators each event attracts as well as extra crew and you suddenly have a couple thousand dollars in addition to your entry fees to be able to cover your expenses.

In the case of pay outs each class gets a proportional amount of the loot. Class rules then govern how that is distributed. In the case of the rally class hill climbs were originally approached from the viewpoint of just having cheap seat time to practice and hang out. As more teams got involved the attitude shifted to emphasize a competitive, while still relaxed, environment, and the payouts were re-structured to provide an incentive and reward for guys that want to build up more powerful cars and generally go faster. Since then the records for the rally class fall almost every single event and more entries show up....


Oh, and did I mention that there is some secured storage available in CO for interested teams as well as having the longest hill climb on the pacific side of the divide (no towing over the Rockies!).
 

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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Then you factor in that each paid entry gets 3 people, including the drivers into the event, the rest have to pay the $10-12.00 at the gate to get in.
You get only 2 in the rally class. Your volunteers/crew/friends all have to pay the gate fee.
 

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Mä meen vittu sinne!
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
For this event, there was $7,053 in income from various places (not including entry fees). There were $6,367 in expenses leaving $685.55 profit. So each payout came from the entry fees, plus the $685 in profit.
Amazing, an organizing body that shares everything to do with the costs and expenses. I suppose they take the members seriously. Any member can propose any rule, and the membership gets to vote on it. The board can pass rules or revoke rules, but they are all elected by the membership. All classes have reps that serve their interests as well. It's quite a nice system in comparison.
 

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hillbilly
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you guys are lucky. the NEHA series barely breaks even. not quite sure why. they created 2 classes for rally cars....2wd, and AWD. they had 2 total entries in the rally classes.
everyone wants to play on tarmac, yet the past 5 years entries have been down. its cheap- at $125 for the weekend. generaly you get 1 familiarization run followed by 4 or 5 timed practice runs ( on saturday) and on sunday 1 fam run and usually 3-5 timed runs. no good spectators spots due to the insurance liabilities.
not sure what the hillclimb culture is like here in the south, will find out at Crow Mtn. in AL this fall.
hmmmm, i have family in colorado. might be time to drop a car there, haha
 

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eating dust taking photos
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you guys are lucky. the NEHA series barely breaks even. not quite sure why. they created 2 classes for rally cars....2wd, and AWD. they had 2 total entries in the rally classes.
everyone wants to play on tarmac, yet the past 5 years entries have been down. its cheap- at $125 for the weekend. generaly you get 1 familiarization run followed by 4 or 5 timed practice runs ( on saturday) and on sunday 1 fam run and usually 3-5 timed runs. no good spectators spots due to the insurance liabilities.
not sure what the hillclimb culture is like here in the south, will find out at Crow Mtn. in AL this fall.
hmmmm, i have family in colorado. might be time to drop a car there, haha


The CHCA is very fortunate in that it has three classes that combined are averaging 40 entries. Those entry fees alone would have covered the costs at the first event. Throw in the other classes and the "gate" and you have money to give back....

Don't forget that we also have a dedicated test facility 60 minutes outside of Denver that is open about 30-40 weekends a year.

A lot of people have put forth a lot of effort to get things to where they are in CO, and the Colorado Rally Cup is working very dilligently to expand and solidify that growth.
 
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