[tom grossmann]

Ok we are all at our wits end over the temporary suspension , so how many of us have e-mailed the powers that be. I sent two e-mails so far and plan a couple more.

Tom Grossmann Seed 9 Rally Sprint

 

[guest]

I seem to recall instructions from the high command
that rally people were not to contact the Board of Directors
for any reason. Rather, they were instructed to contact
the Performance Rally department if they wanted something.

 

[MDBodnar]

And it seems those of us who have mailed the BoD are being directed to mail to the PRB.

I don't think it will hurt to mail to the BoD, express your concerns about the suspension and desire to have ClubRally re-instated asap.

No-one has outlined the "requirements" for reinstating ClubRally. Until we have a public vision of what it is going to take, these people are the leadership and the BoD and PRB should copied on all of your good ideas.

I don't think at this point a letter B##ching will help, but good positive ideas should go a long way.

(Also consider the source of the direction not to send to the BoD, these people make the real decisions so it is important that they hear directly from the members for which the lead.)

Regards,
Mike

 

[rallytaff]

Oh really! Why aren't they allowed to get e-mails from the masses? Would it spoil their day? We're allowed to send e-mails to everyone from the President down!

 

[Primitive]

RE: How many of us have e-mail addressed for the BOG

Why don't we work together constructively and appear somewhat like an intelligent group of people and not screaming masses (this is a general comment and not in any way referring any to comments above).

So:

Here are a few EMAIL addresses that should probably be used for communication to SCCA on these matters. I am sure I few more could use to be posted:

"[email protected]" (the Pro Rally Board & others)
"[email protected]" (Kurt Spitzner director of Perf Rally)
"[email protected]" (Steve Johnson, SCCA President)
"[email protected]" (Dan Coughnour,Series Mgr)
"[email protected]" (Pete Lyon, Risk Management)
"[email protected]" (Jim Kloosterman-ClubSeries Manager)

Now, we should try to have a GENERAL agreement on WHAT WE WANT TO SAY to the powers that be: (here are my ideas distilled)

1) If rallies are UNSAFE, then ALL rallies should be cancelled forever... but if rallies are not inherently unsafe then...

2) ...if only some rallies or some aspects of some rallies are unsafe, then suspend only those rallies that are unsafe or the rallies that have unsafe aspects until they are corrected.

3) What makes a safe rally is a combination of attributes (organizing committee, roads, conditions, marshalling, speeds, arrowing, bannering, driver training, driver experience, organizer experience, clerk of course, workers, workers, workers and again organizer experience). It is not how many people from Topeka show up. It is the knowledge of those who put the darn things on every year that determines the outcome of the rally. Tap this knowledge base.

4) We would like investigation into recent events, but sometimes an accident is just an accident and not a harbinger of an underlying problem or fundemental flaw in a sport with a good 25+ year history in the USA (yes, I know there were some events before that too...)

5) We would like ClubRally to be treated with the same respect as ClubRacing, Solo II, or any other SCCA activity.

What points should be added or deleted?

Pe

Paul Eklund
Car #32
"[email protected]"

ps. Here is WHO the PRB is:

Ralph Kosmides, Chairman
J.B. Niday, Secretary
George Plsek, Competitor Liaison
Beryl Ann Burton, Member at Large
John McArthur, Member at Large
Christian Edstrom, Member at Large
Bill Bradshaw, Member at Large
Phil Mellor
Charlie Clark, BOD Liaison

 

[Foghorn]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

Bruce Weinman had mentioned to me yesterday in an email that the PRB was going to be able to get together (I assume by conference call) that evening (5/19) to discuss the current suspension of activities.

I wonder if anyone on the PRB or in attendance at that meeting would care to fill us in on whether a process was agreed to that will be utilized to investigate, deliberate and make recommendations on the issues and whether there is a planned timeline for same?

We all share the same concerns regarding safety and the future of the sport and it would seem that sharing the process to be followed would help to ensure open lines of communication between the administration of the sport and its participants and would be an encouraging step for all affected.

Kent Gardam

 

[Bruce]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

I can verify that the PRB met for over three hours last night, and everybody took away action items. Jim Kloosterman, the ClubRally Series Manager was on the call, as was Lyn Nelson, the National Safety Steward. And maybe George W. for all I know.

Considering the way every word is dissected and studied for double meanings and conspiracies on this board, I would not expect the PRB to use it as their medium to inform the rally community of anything.

Believe me, you'll all be involved in this before it's finished.

Bruce

 

[MDBodnar]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

But would it not be smart to:

1) Announce that the PRB has met to discuss the issues - this may be in the works, I'd suggest Special Stage as a more efficient forum than the SCCA website.
2) Solicit feedback for either any ideas or focused ideas around core issues
3) Either set an anticipated timeline for action steps or announce that an anticipated timeline will be set at the next emergency meeting to be held on x date.


As more details are confirmed, especially the action steps that need to be taken to reinstate the ClubRally Program, it will be very important to allow the membership to assist.

I have never been a fan of the PRB secrecy, it does more to elevate distrust than poorly worded press releases. The membership is very good at analyzing what will and won't work, what is well worded and what is poorly worded. Why spend countless hours of effort to set everything up only to find out that what you meant to say is mis-interpreted or unactionable.

I think lots of Baby-Steps and exploration of ideas would be more productive than secret meetings with unknown agendas. Edicts from on high, as in the BoD mandate of suspension without background, does not tend to sit well with rallyists. (Edicts from on high may be necessary, but let us know that this is the 'only' way due to whatever circumstance.)

Let us know how we can help,
Regards,
Mike

 

[Bruce]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

The PRB met less than 24 hours ago, and already their lack of response is referred to as "secrecy." Is it any wonder why they try to get some work done, rather than spend precious time explaining themselves to people who, in the final analysis, won't believe them anyway? And these people have day jobs.

They have already received more suggestions than they could possibly process, even eliminating the anatomically impossible ones...

Bruce

 

[Rich Smith]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

>
>Believe me, you'll all be involved in this before it's
>finished.
>

Bruce,

Will there be enough finished to restore sanctions to the Dryad and Shitepoke ClubRallies scheduled for June 7th and 8th?

Dual coefficient 3's, in Washington State.

Rich Smith

Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"

ps: Sent letter to board, et al, 5/18/03

(corrected grammar + added ps)

 

[John Vanlandingham]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

The PRB met less than 24 hours ago, and already their lack
>of response is referred to as "secrecy." Is it any wonder
>why they try to get some work done, rather than spend
>precious time explaining themselves to people who, in the
>final analysis, won't believe them anyway?

------>>>>>And these people
>have day jobs. <<<<<<<------
JesusHChrist Bruce, you really do write some pearls.
May I gently remind you there are several PAID SCCA Rally department
mucky mucks, one being our beloved PR Dood Mr. Kurt Spitzner and anothjer being Mr Doug Robinson, and there are others such as secretaries and such.

Obviously the policy of not communicating early and openly followed by the PAID staff has done nothing but breed wide spread contempt and disgust, and has obviously not worked.

Obviously.

Now I know that 100% of anybody here in the NW that I know has wondered just how the PAID staff spends their time,other than schoomzing at PR junkets and flying to WRc rounds at whose expense, nobody knows, and some have suggested that since they are instructed not to write anything in their oafish-al SCCA capacity HERE at the de-facto ONLY Nationwide forum, and we are continulaly instructed to "write the PRB" "Write the..." that they must spend 16 hours a day answering all their correspondence, but somehoiw I don't think that's really the case.
>
>They have already received more suggestions than they could
>possibly process, even eliminating the anatomically
>impossible ones...

Well thank you for both informing us of the length of the phone call and who was there and how they are swamped.
Too bad they couldn't take the time to send something more than that.
>
>Bruce
Bruce, your tone is so abrasive and I don't know if it is just the way tone is conveyed so poorly in print, as many have said to me, but your writing seems very close to the same sort of things that some of us find annoying or disgusting with the SCCA. To Wit:

You complain about people wishing for information and deride their choice of words and ridicule things with word like "secrecy", then defend the PRDood and PRB and include things which are patently false.

This is really bad Bruce, and I am not attacking your obvious long term commitment to this sport, but rather hoping you might understand how you seemingly don't see how your half true statements and references to, but no details of "the bigger picture" comes accross as as dismissive superiority.
Some people see that as the same behaviour as we see routinely in the management and administration of OUR sport.

It seems to me to indicate who you identify and align yourself with.

Anyway, do you remember now there is Paid staff?

And Bruce, note well, that again nearly every single person I know in this sport has no ill will toward those who volunteer their time, and as the time PSBS (Post SpitznerBS) goes on the reverse is true regarding the PAID staff.







OK



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/

 

[tom grossmann]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

Ok guys I started this thread here is what I did: I e-mail the BOD , Steve Johnson and the PRB. I asked them to allow Club Events to continue on a case by case basis with the events being stricly non-spectator and the organizer providing a plan to insure no spectators would be on the stages or those stages would be cancelled.
First off lashing out on this forum doesn't do a lot to get the club events going again - that is our goal and nothing else matters!!!!

Tom Grossmann

 

[wahl]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

>more efficient forum

Hmm. they must measure and use the word "efficient" differently in
your world. Is that the whole "less is more" from the world of bras?

All I see on this forum is mostly whining. Not so efficient.
Not real helpful either.

But what do I know, I'm just an engineer, not an insurance
man or a safety steward.

Ed

 

[sunnynw1]

RE: How many of us have e-mail addressed for the BOG

>
>So:
>
>Here are a few EMAIL addresses that should probably be used
>for communication to SCCA on these matters. I am sure I few
>more could use to be posted:
>
>"[email protected]" (the Pro Rally Board & others)
>"[email protected]" (Kurt Spitzner director of Perf Rally)
>"[email protected]" (Steve Johnson, SCCA President)
>"[email protected]" (Dan Coughnour,Series Mgr)
>"[email protected]" (Pete Lyon, Risk Management)
>"[email protected]" (Jim Kloosterman-ClubSeries Manager)
>

Robm has posted a few more email addresses in the NW forum, here is the link:

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID22/200.html

 

[Ole]

Write the Right People !

I agree with Tom's sentiments exactly.

If you can, please contact the SCCA BOD with CONSTRUCTIVE
information or requests so we can get ClubRally back on
as soon as possible. The BOD made the decision to stop
ClubRally and they are the ones who will make the decision
to re-start it.

I e-mailed Steve Johnson and the entire BOD last Monday.

The e-mail addresses of the 2003 SCCA BOD are at:
http://www.scca.org/interactive/boards.html

 

[Don Kennedy]

I gave them 2 weeks. I've heard nothing much in the way of details except for the club suspension and spectator edict for STPR. My letter went to them last night.

 

[Bruce]

RE: Process for Investigation/Deliberation/Recommendations?

>JesusHChrist Bruce, you really do write some pearls.
>May I gently remind you there are several PAID SCCA Rally
>department
>mucky mucks, one being our beloved PR Dood Mr. Kurt Spitzner
>and anothjer being Mr Doug Robinson, and there are others
>such as secretaries and such.

Yes, indeed, there are paid staff at SCCA. But others on this forum (perhaps even you, John) have complained about the edicts that the paid staff make and say, "this is supposed to be a club." Now the decision has been left in the hands of volunteers...and they're doing their best. At this point, I think the paid staff should keep as low a profile as possible.

>Obviously the policy of not communicating early and openly
>followed by the PAID staff has done nothing but breed wide
>spread contempt and disgust, and has obviously not worked.

Yup...which is why we're waiting patiently for the PRB to do their thing.

>Bruce, your tone is so abrasive and I don't know if it is
>just the way tone is conveyed so poorly in print, as many
>have said to me, but your writing seems very close to the
>same sort of things that some of us find annoying or
>disgusting with the SCCA. To Wit:

Abrasive? Me? Gee, I thought the "anatomically impossible" quip was pretty good...better use more smileys...

>You complain about people wishing for information and deride
>their choice of words and ridicule things with word like
>"secrecy", then defend the PRDood and PRB and include things
>which are patently false.

I don't remember defending anybody...except perhaps the PRB. Patently false? An interesting observation...

>
>This is really bad Bruce, and I am not attacking your
>obvious long term commitment to this sport, but rather
>hoping you might understand how you seemingly don't see how
>your half true statements and references to, but no details
>of "the bigger picture" comes accross as as dismissive
>superiority.
>Some people see that as the same behaviour as we see
>routinely in the management and administration of OUR sport.
>
>It seems to me to indicate who you identify and align
>yourself with.

Yup...should be clear by now...I consider a couple of the PRB my friends, and I live with another one. I think they work hard at their job (even though I don't necessarily agree with all their decisions.) I think they need support and help from the community, and I tried to point out that they WERE working hard on this subject.

The paid staff? I have my problems with some of them...

I couldn't give any more detail, as I don't have it. And yes, I am complaining about those who deride the "knee-jerk" reaction to the tragedy at Sawmill and then in the next breath want an instant reply from the PRB on how it's going to be fixed. Patience is called for, I think.

I can deal with ad hominem attacks, too.

Bruce

 

[Rallychick from Oregon]

I got a nice email from Steve Johnson, thanking me for my email and my involvment in rally for many moons. He also said that he understands my concerns, and that everyone is working toward a swift resolution.

Now, if STPR gets all kinds of screwed up with spectators (rumor has it that the safety staff from National, and insurance reps, risk management reps, etc. will be there), we can all thank the NE, again, for continued suspension of all our events.

All that aside, I agree with Bruce that a little patience is called for. We all get so used to having information almost instantly, that when we have to wait for it, we get cranky. It would be nice to see some sort of list or bulletin about what issues/ideas/targets we need to work on; part of why we're all antsy about things is that we all want to help, but no one is telling us what we can do!

I guess we could continue our letter writing campaign, but then all those people would have to spend a lot of time wading through our emails and letters instead of working on the problems, finding solutions, etc.

So. PRB members, lurking on the forum: any ideas on what the rest of us can do to help out??? Any inklings of direction we should go in?

Thanks!
KT

 

[Rich Smith]

Hot List of Action Items?

<We all get so used to having information almost instantly, that when we have to wait for it, we get cranky. It would be nice to see some sort of list or bulletin about what issues/ideas/targets we need to work on; part of why we're all antsy about things is that we all want to help, but no one is telling us what we can do!>


Kristen Tabor has a good idea here. If a prioritized "Hot List" of action items were officially posted by SCCA (PRD or PRB) acknowleging concerns they are committed to address, it would probably cut down the volume of inquiries and/or complaints. People could go on to other things.

Rich Smith

Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"

 

[Morgan]

Now, if STPR gets all kinds of screwed up with spectators (rumor has it that the safety staff from National, and insurance reps, risk management reps, etc. will be there), we can all thank the NE, again, for continued suspension of all our events.


Please don't turn this into an east vs. west thing. There is no point in assigning blame, especially without facts. An accident could have equally happened in your neck of the woods and ended up with the same suspension.
Don't think for a minute that any region is immune to such a tragedy!