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can someone please explain what these times are supposed to represent?
Thanks,
Matt
Thanks,
Matt
"hot time"/"bogey time"?
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Well, I guess they could have different definitions depending on what event you are at.
Here's how I would define them though
Hot Time: The time _of day_ when the stage is supposed to transition from "Controlled" to "Hot"
Bogey Time: The maximum duration of time in which a competing vehicle should traverse the length of the stage.
JBLewis
Here's how I would define them though
Hot Time: The time _of day_ when the stage is supposed to transition from "Controlled" to "Hot"
Bogey Time: The maximum duration of time in which a competing vehicle should traverse the length of the stage.
JBLewis
Hot time represents the estimated fast time for the stage. It is used by the organizers to predict the first car's arrival time, so that the rally may run on schedule.
Bogey time is (in the case of Sno*Drift) the time we estimate it will take the slowest car, running clean, to complete the stage. It is used to determine MPL & determine stage closing times.
A rally plans its openings based on the hot times. It plans its closings based on bogey times + MPL. This is the basis for the times posted in the rally schedule.
Bogey time is (in the case of Sno*Drift) the time we estimate it will take the slowest car, running clean, to complete the stage. It is used to determine MPL & determine stage closing times.
A rally plans its openings based on the hot times. It plans its closings based on bogey times + MPL. This is the basis for the times posted in the rally schedule.
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512 Posts
Thats what I thought, Just wanted to make sure...
So, for a rookie team, we should strive for something faster than the "Bogey" time and should not expect to be very close to the "Hot" time, right?
I know we should just run our own speed, but it's nice to have something to compare your time to right at the finish of a stage.
Thanks,
Matt
So, for a rookie team, we should strive for something faster than the "Bogey" time and should not expect to be very close to the "Hot" time, right?
I know we should just run our own speed, but it's nice to have something to compare your time to right at the finish of a stage.
Thanks,
Matt
Bogey times are sometimes set based on mid-pack times. Every event is a little different.
Sometimes organizers just get it wrong too -- years ago at Sno*Drift we had something like a 17 minute bogey set for what turned out to be a 19 minute hot time (the first time we used the ranch...). Road conditions can change reasonable bogey's into unachievable bogeys.
Don't worry about times at all, don't even bother to ask the competitors around you, just drive a nice clean event. If you really want to know times, what until the first service break and then take the time to think about your times and how they compare to similiar cars/drivers and think about what you could have done to drive smoother -- not faster, or just be happy the car is still in one piece.
Good Luck!
Mike
Sometimes organizers just get it wrong too -- years ago at Sno*Drift we had something like a 17 minute bogey set for what turned out to be a 19 minute hot time (the first time we used the ranch...). Road conditions can change reasonable bogey's into unachievable bogeys.
Don't worry about times at all, don't even bother to ask the competitors around you, just drive a nice clean event. If you really want to know times, what until the first service break and then take the time to think about your times and how they compare to similiar cars/drivers and think about what you could have done to drive smoother -- not faster, or just be happy the car is still in one piece.
Good Luck!
Mike
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I suspect as rookies you ought to be hooping and hollering just getting to the finish control.....worry about times on your SECOND rally! It's not likely that you'll accumulate much MPL without something going mechanically wrong (or testing the laws of physics)
Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.
Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.
Bogey times are also used if you arrive at a time control and there is no one there to check you in. In that case you then run the stage at legal road speeds and use the bogey time to determine your next arrival time. I have never had this happen.
Seth S
>can someone please explain what these times are supposed to
>represent?
>
>Thanks,
>Matt
Seth S
>can someone please explain what these times are supposed to
>represent?
>
>Thanks,
>Matt
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Our goal the first few times out was to keep the first sweep truck from having to wait for us 
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142 Posts
RE: "hot time"/"bogey time"? - Thrown stage refresher
Your time to arrive at the next control would be Bogey plus 2 minutes for each, if any, missing controls, correct ?
Your time to arrive at the next control would be Bogey plus 2 minutes for each, if any, missing controls, correct ?
>I suspect as rookies you ought to be hooping and hollering
>just getting to the finish control.....worry about times on
>your SECOND rally! It's not likely that you'll accumulate
>much MPL without something going mechanically wrong (or
>testing the laws of physics)
>
>Kim DeMotte
>Official Old Fart, etc.
Hooping and hollering would have been us at our first rally. We were just happy to finish but if you saw us at the end of the event you would have thought we had won.
Gary
#893 Mazda 323 GTX Open
>just getting to the finish control.....worry about times on
>your SECOND rally! It's not likely that you'll accumulate
>much MPL without something going mechanically wrong (or
>testing the laws of physics)
>
>Kim DeMotte
>Official Old Fart, etc.
Hooping and hollering would have been us at our first rally. We were just happy to finish but if you saw us at the end of the event you would have thought we had won.
Gary
#893 Mazda 323 GTX Open
RE: "hot time"/"bogey time"? - Thrown stage refresher
>Your time to arrive at the next control would be Bogey plus
>2 minutes for each, if any, missing controls, correct ?
Three, not two.
The problem has been that there is commonly only one bogey time, and it's used for timing the event, calculating MPL, and using as a transit time when the stage can't be run in anger. A little thought will tell you that one time won't work for all of these...thus the compromise of a "mid-pack" time, which doesn't work for anything.
Having a "hot time" is good for keeping the event going. Making "bogey" a VERY slow time is good if you have to transit, but bad for MPL if we REALLY need to exclude someone for being slow. We really need THREE times for a stage.
Don't get me wrong...I never even CALCULATE MPL unless it's becoming a safety issue, but when you need it, it needs to be a reasonable number.
Bruce
>Your time to arrive at the next control would be Bogey plus
>2 minutes for each, if any, missing controls, correct ?
Three, not two.
The problem has been that there is commonly only one bogey time, and it's used for timing the event, calculating MPL, and using as a transit time when the stage can't be run in anger. A little thought will tell you that one time won't work for all of these...thus the compromise of a "mid-pack" time, which doesn't work for anything.
Having a "hot time" is good for keeping the event going. Making "bogey" a VERY slow time is good if you have to transit, but bad for MPL if we REALLY need to exclude someone for being slow. We really need THREE times for a stage.
Don't get me wrong...I never even CALCULATE MPL unless it's becoming a safety issue, but when you need it, it needs to be a reasonable number.
Bruce
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512 Posts
by "rookies" I mean that this is out first season. I am refering to Rim of the world when I ask; It will be out third event. We DNF'd Prescott after one and a half hot stages (broken tie rod), and set some respectable times at the Seed9 Rallysprint to take 1st in class, 8th overall (of 16 starters), and 2nd fastest 2wd. So we have all of 30 or so stage miles under our belt (and probably a hundred practice miles). I think "Rookie" is appropreate...
Our goals for Rim are:
1. Start (It's looking like this one will not be a problem)
2. Finish
3. Have fun (go fast)
4. Remember goal #2 (and adjust "fun" level accordingly)
5. Try not to finish last (but, someone has to)
#5 is only a goal because sometimes you have to "shoot for the stars" when making your goals
Right now I think we are at the stage where we can't wait for Rim; Then we count the weekends, subtract the number of prior comitments, and get nervous... How are we going to get this all done in time?
Our goals for Rim are:
1. Start (It's looking like this one will not be a problem)
2. Finish
3. Have fun (go fast)
4. Remember goal #2 (and adjust "fun" level accordingly)
5. Try not to finish last (but, someone has to)
#5 is only a goal because sometimes you have to "shoot for the stars" when making your goals
Right now I think we are at the stage where we can't wait for Rim; Then we count the weekends, subtract the number of prior comitments, and get nervous... How are we going to get this all done in time?
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960 Posts
>5. Try not to finish last (but, someone has to)
>
>#5 is only a goal because sometimes you have to "shoot for
>the stars" when making your goals
>
Lets see who lurks on the board...
Doesn't Tom Bier have the most Dead Last but Finished trophy's in CRS? I know he had a tire change from hell at Prescott in 1999...
I've done my share of Next to Dead last but finished myself...
>
>#5 is only a goal because sometimes you have to "shoot for
>the stars" when making your goals
>
Lets see who lurks on the board...
Doesn't Tom Bier have the most Dead Last but Finished trophy's in CRS? I know he had a tire change from hell at Prescott in 1999...
I've done my share of Next to Dead last but finished myself...
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1,277 Posts
RE: "hot time"/"bogey time"? - Thrown stage refresher
Last is better than DNF.
Last is better than DNF.
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