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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Got my feet wet with my VW but I felt it was time to move on to something else. I wanted to go with a Honda for a while. After searching around I got myself an 1996 EK hatch with a B16A2 swap from a 1999 Civic Si from a local guy. I am building this car for stage rally first, but I am going to try to mee H1/H2 Honda Challenge rules so I can do road races at Mid-Ohio if I want.

Goal right now is to get out on the stages first and then slowly upgrade/replace parts as I go along. I'm probably going to get sucked into building a super car, but that's way beyond my budget. I want to make the car drivable/presentable for track day testing with rally debut for at LSPR for MaxAttack! in October.

I'll do my best to keep updates on this and index everything on this first post so people can do a quick reference.

So let the build begin!!!


Table of Contents:

The car, and tearing out interior. Post 2
Tearing out more interior w/ HVAC removal. Cage feet cleaning and glass removal. Engine shot.Post 21
Ghetto cruiser! Post 22
Partial cage install. Post 30
Cage finished and underside of car shots. Post 36
Removal of tea cup saucer brakes. Post 37
Declutter of rear hatch wiring. Post 68
Pulling of motor, brake master/booster, clutch master. Post 84.
Stitch welding interior, dash mounts, pedal box mounts, filled motor mounts, rotisserie, hydro handbrake. Post 91
Haven't been in a rally, but I got the car on its roof already... Post 93
Finished stitch welding and pin jack stands Post 99
Epoxy underside, starting interior painting, painted engine bay, front bracing, pin jack.s Post 106
Interior painting, sway bar mounts, fuel/brake lines, interior dash wiring. Post 187
Transmission work. Post 188
Suspension/Brakes. Post 189
Rear Skidplate fabrication @ TRF and glimpses of underbody HDPE. Post 190
Cleaning of the washer reservoir/pumps. Post 197
Underbody and battery tray. Post 211
 

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ITURNRT
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2,061 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·




The car still needed some work. Had the front end from a silver 2000 EX coupe, black engine bay, and a bad white paint job. But it looks good from 20 feet so that's what a race car is all about, huh? Mainly wanted the swap already done so I didn't have to worry about finding parts and making sure it worked.

So getting into this, I'm getting my cage installed by Thompson Racing Fabrication and I need to prep the shell. That means tearing out stuff!

Removed most of interior bits





Worked another day tearing apart the dash and the rest of the head liner and a pillar trim.






More to come!
 

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Glad to see another Civic in the works. Good luck with the project. If you have any questions about anything let me know, I'm neck deep into building mine.
 

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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Those seats & steering wheel are worth a little $$$... :)
I paid a bit extra for the car because of the "mods" but I figured I could make some bucks back selling all the pimper stuff. He was all excited when he was showing the interior and I just said, "Eh, that's all gonna get torn out anyway". I am going to weigh everything I took out of the car to give an idea of what I took out and how much weight savings I had as well so that update will come later.

There's a bunch of things that were changed and most was done by young kids so it's more than likely done ghetto or missing. But most of the stuff that needed attention I was going to be tearing apart anyway or removing so I wasn't to worried about it. The brakes suck and can't seem to get solid pedal feel and it's real mushy (re-bled with 2L of fluid and nothing improved). But good thing I'm replacing the brake lines and master anyway.

Glad to see another Civic in the works. Good luck with the project. If you have any questions about anything let me know, I'm neck deep into building mine.
What gen are you building? I was looking between an EG and EK. I wanted an EG for integra suspension parts swapping but ended up with the EK since I got a good price on the car with the swap. I just like the EK in looks better since it was my dream car when I started driving to have an EK Civic Type R. I thought about doing an EP build, but the initial cost was too expensive to start. The K series stuff is nice, but you can get similar performance from a B series for a lot less.
 

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What gen are you building? I was looking between an EG and EK. I wanted an EG for integra suspension parts swapping but ended up with the EK since I got a good price on the car with the swap. I just like the EK in looks better since it was my dream car when I started driving to have an EK Civic Type R. I thought about doing an EP build, but the initial cost was too expensive to start. The K series stuff is nice, but you can get similar performance from a B series for a lot less.
You can use the EG/DC stuff up front--in the back I think the only difference is that the lower control arms is narrower than the EG/DC stuff. If you build a custom lower control arm you can probably use Integra/Civic stuff all the way around.
 

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What gen are you building? I was looking between an EG and EK. I wanted an EG for integra suspension parts swapping but ended up with the EK since I got a good price on the car with the swap. I just like the EK in looks better since it was my dream car when I started driving to have an EK Civic Type R. I thought about doing an EP build, but the initial cost was too expensive to start. The K series stuff is nice, but you can get similar performance from a B series for a lot less.
Building an all out EG with an FIA cage, K20, short ratio gear kit, DMS dampers, alloy pedal box, monoblock 4 pot brakes, and the list goes on.

You can use the EG/DC2 Integra suspension up front if you change the subframe. More options out there and cheaper.
 

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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Building an all out EG with an FIA cage, K20, short ratio gear kit, DMS dampers, alloy pedal box, monoblock 4 pot brakes, and the list goes on.

You can use the EG/DC2 Integra suspension up front if you change the subframe. More options out there and cheaper.
Sounds a bit more involved than my eventual B20 w/ M factory close ratio plans. I'm going to try and milk my dual citizenship with H2 class in Honda Challenge while I can. But with that, means I'm limited on engine/trans mods which is good for a "get out of the stages" plan. But I can still swap JDM B16 pistons, type R cams and port/match the first inch on the head and a 10.9:1 CR and use any final drive I want with stock gears and 2250 min weight.

Didn't know that you could change the subframe up front to take integra bits. The only direct swap I knew was the rear trailing arms. I'm getting an EX/Si front brake swap (knuckle/hub/caliper) for free with swap of my CX/DX stuff because my buddy wants to do the wilwood big brake kit so he doesn't need his. Got the rear's from a Del Slow. Have trailing arm/cables/calipers/hub/knuckle w/out rotors for $100 from my buddies friend too.

Again, goal right now is to get out on the stages first and then slowly upgrade/replace parts as I go along. I could get sucked into building a super car, but that's way beyond my budget. I want to make the car drivable/presentable for the West Michigan Honda Meet in July with rally debut for at LSPR for MaxAttack! in October.
 

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RallyX Weenie
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the billion dollar question for (rally) hondas (atmo): what are your plans for suspenders?

//AFAIK, the EG and EK front dampers are pretty much a straight swap - might need to use the forks off an EG with the dampers, but I'm pretty sure they bolt right up. No subframe changes necessary.
 

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92-00 civic suspension is all the same... (At least that I recall. I seem to remember everything being 92-00 when buying stuff years back)
 

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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
the billion dollar question for (rally) hondas (atmo): what are your plans for suspenders?

//AFAIK, the EG and EK front dampers are pretty much a straight swap - might need to use the forks off an EG with the dampers, but I'm pretty sure they bolt right up. No subframe changes necessary.
I'm pretty sure this is the case. I'm still dabbling around on components here and what swaps around. I know with axles, EK/EG/DC are all the same (length and splines) because when I blew up one of Evan Moen's outer CVs at a rallycross in his ITR we used an axle from an EK civic to replace it.

92-00 civic suspension is all the same... (At least that I recall. I seem to remember everything being 92-00 when buying stuff years back)
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Springs will go between EG/EK civic and DC integra. Shocks won't (directly at least). The EG/DC are all 100% swappable with parts (Control arms, trailing arms, shocks/springs). EK's geometry is a bit different, thus the need to swap the subframe to fit the lower control arms. The only thing that is swapable between EG/EK/DC is the rear trailing arms?

But for rallying, EG would be the easiest since you swap over all the integra control arms and spindles which are beefier than the respective civic components. EK is going to take a bit more hybridization with parts but it still exists.

I should make a spreadsheet of all this in a way. All of the Honda guys want to go for the lightest weight possible and not for the beefy stuff so it's a bit hard to find the information out there. Most guys just want a rear disc swap and leave it at that with their car slammed on EBAY coil-overs.
 

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Front lower control arms, front upper control arms, rear lower control arms are different. Due to the rear lower control arms being different, rear dampers are also different.

As for the billion dollar suspension question... there's a lot of options, from mild to wild. You can get Proflex, Ohlins, Sellholm, DMS, Dynamics, RSSP, Hotbits, etc.

As for running M Factory crap in the gearbox, well I have bad experience, and so have pretty much all the civic guys in the Irish tarmac circuit. (You can check it out on rallyforums.com for horror stories)
It wrecked my old RSX's box when the final drive pinion sheered and it took out 2nd-3rd and the Quaife LSD. They never even cared to reply to me. It happened on a transit after only 3 stages. It was the first even on the part so it had less than 100km's.
 

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RallyX Weenie
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While the EG and EK front LCAs are different, I thought it was just minor geometry and the fact that the EG arm bolts together, where the EK is one piece?

I'm 99% certain that the EG front shocks will bolt right up to an EK. Worst case requires the EG fork as well, but I think they're the same between the EG and the EK.

I don't think there's really much difference (aside from minor geometry changes) between the corresponding Civic and Integra arms - at least as far as the EF/DA stuff goes, the only difference is that the DA rear LCA is a teeny bit longer - castings seem to be very similar sizes, so probably not noticeably stronger.
 

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While the EG and EK front LCAs are different, I thought it was just minor geometry and the fact that the EG arm bolts together, where the EK is one piece?

I'm 99% certain that the EG front shocks will bolt right up to an EK. Worst case requires the EG fork as well, but I think they're the same between the EG and the EK.

I don't think there's really much difference (aside from minor geometry changes) between the corresponding Civic and Integra arms - at least as far as the EF/DA stuff goes, the only difference is that the DA rear LCA is a teeny bit longer - castings seem to be very similar sizes, so probably not noticeably stronger.
Yes the shocks are the same. The difference in the front control arms are more than just a simple geometry. Just google it for pics.
 

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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
As for running M Factory crap in the gearbox, well I have bad experience, and so have pretty much all the civic guys in the Irish tarmac circuit. (You can check it out on rallyforums.com for horror stories)
It wrecked my old RSX's box when the final drive pinion sheered and it took out 2nd-3rd and the Quaife LSD. They never even cared to reply to me. It happened on a transit after only 3 stages. It was the first even on the part so it had less than 100km's.
Is it just final drive related? I know Matt Johnston's got the full close ratio set + 4.9 gear, granted he's ran 2 stages in LSPR and NEFR on it. But I was looking to get the 3,4,5 set with the stock 4.4 final and then going to a 4.9 once I beefed up the engine to rev higher.

What other companies make close gear kits besides quaife and are good? Or is it come down to the "get what you pay for" motto? I asked my good friend google, but he can tell me what's available but not what is good/crap.
 

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What other companies make close gear kits besides quaife and are good? Or is it come down to the "get what you pay for" motto? I asked my good friend google, but he can tell me what's available but not what is good/crap.
Try out MFactory. I know they do a ton of Honduhs, with parts already set a blueprinted. I was talking with them back in the day while looking into a build. http://www.teammfactory.com/home

Met the guy on a Mazda forum, but they have Honduhs in all aspects of motorsports
 

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What other companies make close gear kits besides quaife and are good?
Billy,

My search showed some failures with most aftermarket gear kit brands. The most reliable gear kits seem to be OS Giken. Pricey, rare(has to be ordered from Japan) and not that many ratio choices. That is what I got and it is going in my new gearbox. My other box is a GSR with a 99 SI 3rd, 4th, 5th and ATS 4.93 FD.

Elite units get good reviews too but they are quite expensive.

George
 

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ITURNRT
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Billy,

My search showed some failures with most aftermarket gear kit brands. The most reliable gear kits seem to be OS Giken. Pricey, rare(has to be ordered from Japan) and not that many ratio choices. That is what I got and it is going in my new gearbox. My other box is a GSR with a 99 SI 3rd, 4th, 5th and ATS 4.93 FD.

Elite units get good reviews too but they are quite expensive.

George
Makes sense, I had found OS Giken but I kept clicking North American distributors and nobody seemed to carry B series stuff. The gear ratio they have seems good, but having to buy gears in packages of 3 4 or 5 and all sets have different ratios. The 3 speed set isn't that bad if you could pair it with a 4.9 final.


I wonder how the straight cut M factory gears compare to the helical version. Those seemed to have popped up quite recently. The 3-5 gearset with a 4.4 wouldn't be bad with an 8k redline and then drop in a 4.9 once I rev higher.
 

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Is it just final drive related? I know Matt Johnston's got the full close ratio set + 4.9 gear, granted he's ran 2 stages in LSPR and NEFR on it. But I was looking to get the 3,4,5 straight cut set with the stock 4.4 final and then going to a 4.9 once I beefed up the engine to rev higher.

What other companies make close gear kits besides quaife and are good? Or is it come down to the "get what you pay for" motto? I asked my good friend google, but he can tell me what's available but not what is good/crap.
Since that failure with the MFactory final I started using the Gear-X stuff and used both their 5.84 and 6.33 final drives with no issues for a long time. These units have also been getting great reviews by the guys running them in Ireland. No failures on those bumpy stages. They also have several short ratio options with 1-3-4-5th gears.

Also ran ATS in a different car roadracing at it also gave away at the pinion.

The MFactory stuff comes from China/Taiwan and Gear-X Germany so I think thats where the quality and material differences are from.
http://specialprojectsms.com/index.php?categoryID=4

I also recently talked with some honda guys in World Challenge and in ST class in Grand Am down in Daytona and they have all been getting reliable performance out of them.
 
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