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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
RIM 2003:
ONE lonely Cortina GT

Finland 2003:

1 71 VIRTANEN Vesa-Matti HamUA OPEL Ascona A 9 4:01,0 -
2 66 KIVENNE Kari HyUA OPEL Ascona A 9 4:01,3 ,3
3 67 HEIKKILÄ Reijo VAU VOLVO 142 S 9 4:01,8 ,8
4 68 WESTERBACK Jukka HSTT BMW 2002 Ti 9 4:03,1 2,1
5 70 KOVANEN Seppo Mäntän UA OPEL Ascona A 9 4:11,2 10,2
6 69 JÄRVINEN Jarmo HSTT FORD Escort RS 160 9 4:12,6 11,6
7 38 SILVASTI Ville UurUA PORSCHE 911 5 4:16,8 15,8
8 57 TILLI Jari MikUA BMW 2002 Ti 7 4:18,5 17,5
9 55 GRANLUND Erkki EurUA BMW 2002 Ti 7 4:18,7 17,7
10 64 TAIPALE Markku TapUA DATSUN 1600 SSS 8 4:19,3 18,3
11 25 HAARAKANGAS Ari TapUA FORD Consul Cortin 4 4:19,7 18,7
12 63 VIRTANEN Jani HamUA SAAB 96 V4 Sedan 8 4:20,5 19,5
13 62 TUOMINEN Sami SaaUA FORD Escort 1300 8 4:20,8 19,8
14 56 SAKSELIN Antero Salo UA BMW 2002 Ti 7 4:21,4 20,4
15 24 VESANEN Pekka KouAUK FORD Lotus Cortina 4 4:23,0 22,0
16 15 RÄTTÖ Jari VihUA FORD Anglia Super 3 4:23,2 22,2
17 36 LAIHOAHO Jarkko VihUA VOLVO 122 S 5 4:24,4 23,4
18 28 LAAKSONEN Juha MäntsMK FORD Consul Cortin 4 4:25,0 24,0
19 17 PEROKORPI Pasi PoSUA FORD Consul Cortin 3 4:26,5 25,5
19 51 KAINULAINEN Jari KiuUA VOLVO 142 S 7 4:26,5 25,5
19 54 LINDBERG Jarmo VAU VOLVO 142 S 7 4:26,5 25,5
22 37 WIKMAN Sven-Olof VUA VOLVO 544 Sport 5 4:27,2 26,2
23 59 VUOHIO Pekka RiiUA FORD Escort 1300 8 4:27,6 26,6
24 29 SANTALA Jouko JouSUA ALFA-ROMEO Giulia 4 4:27,9 26,9
24 52 LAINE Risto OriUA OPEL Kadett B Rall 7 4:27,9 26,9
26 50 HYVÄRINEN Jari KeurUA VOLVO 142 S 7 4:30,1 29,1
27 8 VEIKKANEN Pentti HyUA TRIUMPH Spitfire 2 4:30,3 29,3
28 26 ERKKILÄ Pentti VAU FORD Cortina GT 4 4:30,4 29,4
29 27 KETTUMÄKI Janne LapUA FORD Consul Cortin 4 4:30,6 29,6
29 35 NORRGÅRD Sverre AnkUA VOLVO 122 S 5 4:30,6 29,6
31 13 MAKKONEN Jyrki HyUA FORD Consul Cortin 3 4:30,9 29,9
32 18 JAAKKOLA Sami LahUA FORD Anglia Super 3 4:32,4 31,4
33 53 PITKÄNEN Panu FosUA BMW 2002 Ti 7 4:33,5 32,5
34 45 PEERLA Harri EPUA DATSUN Finn 6 4:34,6 33,6
35 41 LINDELL Ole KRT MAZDA 616 Capella 6 4:36,1 35,1
36 9 HÄNNINEN Ilkka RaisUA HILLMAN Imp 2 4:36,2 35,2
37 11 SAARISTO Jussi HMSC HILLMAN Imp 2 4:37,8 36,8
38 14 RAHKONEN Mika ValUA FORD Anglia Super 3 4:38,8 37,8
39 40 VEPSÄLÄINEN Kari Poppoo Team MAZDA 616 Capella 6 4:38,9 37,9
40 48 SAIKKONEN Jukka RDT MAZDA 1300 Sedan 6 4:39,2 38,2
41 46 KANGAS Jussi HamUA BMW 1602 6 4:39,3 38,3
42 47 TOIVONEN Jukka HyUA FORD Escort 1300 6 4:39,5 38,5
43 33 KARHAPÄÄ Jorma OUA PORSCHE 911 5 4:40,0 39,0
44 60 LAAKKONEN Tero LahUA BMW 1602 8 4:41,5 40,5
45 44 EEROLA Raine Kotka UA FORD Escort 1300 6 4:42,1 41,1
46 10 HOLMSTRÖM Kaj KirkUA MORRIS Mini Cooper 2 4:42,4 41,4
47 5 MASALIN Vesa-Matti PukMU FIAT 850 Super 1 4:44,2 43,2
48 43 VIRTANEN Eero TamUA FORD Cortina GT 6 4:45,0 44,0
49 16 TÖYRYLÄ Matti PoSUA FORD Consul Cortin 3 4:45,1 44,1
50 42 KALLIOINEN Arto HyUA DATSUN 1600 6 4:45,9 44,9
51 32 RYTKÖNEN Risto NuUA VOLVO 122 S 5 4:46,2 45,2
52 30 ASPLUND Juha YkUA TRIUMPH 2000 5 4:47,8 46,8
53 12 LAJUNEN Lauri AL-Tikkakoski FORD Consul Cortin 3 4:50,3 49,3
53 19 KOSKINEN Timo VUA FORD Consul Cortin 4 4:50,3 49,3
55 49 KUIKKA Sakari NuUA VOLVO 144 S 7 4:50,5 49,5
56 4 PURO Sakari LemUA FIAT 850 Super 1 4:54,5 53,5
57 2 TASKINEN Kimmo NuUA TRABANT P 601 1 4:54,7 53,7
58 31 LANKOLAINEN Jukka KajUA PLYMOUTH Barracuda 5 4:55,2 54,2
59 61 VELIN Jarmo VAU SUNBEAM 900 8 4:58,0 57,0
60 6 LAINE Esa VAU MORRIS MiniCooper 2 5:02,1 1:01,1
61 3 MASALIN Veli-Marko PukMU FIAT 850 Super 1 5:02,7 1:01,7
62 23 PIETARILA Tapani TapUA FORD Consul Cortin 4 5:05,4 1:04,4
63 21 WILKMAN Klaus Poppoo Team ISUZU Bellet 1500 4 5:06,0 1:05,0
64 1 KOSKINEN Pasi TamUA SAAB 96 1 5:12,5 1:11,5
65 39 KELTANEN Antero IisUA OPEL Ascona A 1600 6 5:13,2 1:12,2
66 7 LAPPALAINEN Antti IisUA FORD Anglia 2 5:14,5 1:13,5

- Who's rules are working?

PS. Notice - "Plymouth Barracuda V8" rally car!!
- I remember seeing this, driven by Raimo Kossila, in many rallies in sixties. High winding 273", bottoming out torsion bar (!) front suspension and so on. He even did Monte Carlo. Absolute crowd's faforite!
 
G

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>Iwish our rallys were so diverse.

They are. They have yellow Subarus, white Subarus, blue Subarus,
green Subarus, and multi-color Subarus.

Once upon a time in America rallies were diverse.
 

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I don't really think the rules are the problem. Is there anyone here with a historic car that hasn't shown up because of the rules?

I only kept one eye on the rules, and ignored the things I thought didn't make any sense, or things that I knew were commonly used in Europe.

It was important to build the car and rally it like it was, to have the right bits on the car, and to actually get the car running and show up.

The car won't be lonely at Rim, a lot of people will visit and say "hi".

Maybe more will come and play after they see the car.

Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
RE: Big fun for pennies......



These guys know what Historic rallying is about - to have FUN!

They're not poor neither, they had 700-series Bimmer and S-class Mercedes for service & tow cars...
 

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RE: Big fun for pennies......

I talked to a guy at Bonneville who went on and on about Trabants. Do you see the irony. He was from Yurp somewhere and was wearing a large sombrero. I just like weird and wonderful cars, so I listened.

I've been trying to get 'out there'. I was entered as navvie in a Saab 96 for T-Bird but the car did not co-operate and insisted in trying to self-destruct. I recently purchased a Kadette with hopes, but alas 'the forces' are against me again.

If anyone needs a navigator on short notice, I'm available. I ran with Jack Deno using a Tommy Box. I hated those tiny micro-switches. I still own a speed-pilot. I ran TSD with a totally mechanical computor. (forget the name) That thing would try to rip the dash off if to much of a correction was put into it.

A Citoen would be a wonderful exotic historic rally car. American iron would definitely be a crowd pleaser. There is a running Barracuda and a Falcon at my local wrecking yard. I have several rust free Opels.

Dick Fuhrman
 

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RE: Big fun for pennies......

Citroen? Did somebody say Citroen ?}>

I just bought an incredibly unabused 1966 ID19 in great shape and low miles. Please don't give me any ideas}>. If I start on one more car, she'll kill me.
Yet again, the ID/DS was campaigned rater succesfully in the late '60s early '70s. They were reliable (excepet for the sphere malfunctions), traction was adequate and the engines were easy to work on. Hmmmmmmmmm }>

Cheers

M.Samli
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
RE: Citi - French revenge

- I remember ID19-21s well. Many cool and still modern tricks, like hi beams turn with wheels (Not on the US cars for "safety" reason! Haloo......)
- Citi driver Pauli Toivonen, Henri's father, won Monte in '66 (after French disqualified 3 top Mini Coopers...)
- IDs can be scary rally cars; If you brake one hydraulic line you loose brakes, steering and suspension! Like a modern WRC car...
- Easy to work on? Try to change the clutch in hurry.
- Best thing is you can taylor the ride height in fly - from 5cm to 20cm.
- In 5 min with one 17mm socket you can remover all doors, all fenders and wheels - a dream car for Los Angeles car/part thieves!
 

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RE: Citi - French revenge

A Citroen DS19/21 would certainly make an interesting (and different) historic rally car.

Citroen entered a team of factory cars in the Shell 4000 in the mid 1960s and did reasonably well.

In the 1970s, Walter Boyce and Jean-Paul Persusse had many epic rally battles. I first encountered Jean-Paul on the Great Montreal Rally in 1969. The rally was contested on Selectives (similar to Special Stages, but the road is not legally closed). Jean-Paul was driving a grotty old Citroen ice racing car. When we saw the results at the halfway point, he was incredibly fast and almost winning.

I introduced myself to him and commented on his speed. His reply was along the line of "yes, but I could go a lot faster, if I could drive on the left side of the road also". Since the roads were not formally closed, and not knowing any better, he was driving all of the Selectives using only the right side of the road!

Unfortunately :), we told him he could use the entire road. We might have won a few more rallies in the 1970s, if Jean-Paul had continued to use only half the road!

Doug Woods
 

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Because build year of the cars entered in Finland is not listed, it is difficult to draw firm conclusions, however, most of the models listed seem to be truely old and historic cars that would fit under the SCCA historic rules. Therefore, I don't think a difference in rules has anything to do with Finland's historic turnout verses Rim's historic turnout.

Nevertheless, I'll state my preference. Irregardless of whether I am spectating or competing, I want historic to be special. I want it to really be historic, as opposed to simply recent but not current. I don't want historic to be diluted just so that we can get around the ProRally 20year rule. So, what is historic anyway? Unfortunately, it is a very subjective question that will be difficult to reach consensus on. For me, any car newer than when I was in junior high (1977) certainly does not seem historic. Thus, I like the current cutoff for historic class, arbitrary though it may seem. I'd like to see all those cars from the gray area of in-between years run...just don't call them historic! Make up another class, or just enjoy ClubRally.

I assume that is what the premise of this thread was looking for. If not, sorry for being out to lunch and getting on my soapbox inappropriately!

-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
1968 BMW 1600 project car
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
- Anybody familiar with FIA rules, Historic racing/rallying and car models can tell Finland's running FIA classes up to "H"

- For rest of you; That's for cars built between 1.1.1905 - 12.31.1976
 

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You are absolutely right about the hydraulics and the clutch. On the other hand if I were to damage the clutch that would be the end of the rally for me anyways. On the other hand I have told my wife that I was buying the Citroen for her, for some reason she wanted one for the last 10 years, now she says that if I were to convert it to a rally car, she would be the one to rally it not me. You see I can never win.

I'll post the pictures as soon as the car is a bit more presentable.

Cheers

M.Samli
 
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