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I'm interested in how many potential Historic cars are either built or under construction, and I want to include those that would compete if the cutoff date was changed to 12/31/76. Also include anything past the cutoff that is identical in specification to pre '77 models.

Please give the following information:
Year, Make & Model
Engine displacement
Estimated completion date if not already built
State or province you live in

Please post even if you haven't started the project yet. (You need to have the car in hand though - no daydreams). If you know other folks who are not on this list but might be interested (road racers, hillclimbers, etc.), get their info and post for them.

No agenda on this, just curiosity on my part and a sincere hope that H-class can get some momentum going!

Here's my info:
1965 Sunbeam Imp
998cc
estimated completion early summer 2003
I'm in Virginia

Thanks,

Steve Spears
 

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I have a 1973 saab 96 that is complete as of last summer. I started the car 4 years ago for group 2 and now it sits in the yard and rusts. I hope that other people will get there project out on this list so maybe I can run this car soon. It all rally, except the roof rack. http://www.geocities.com/graminal/Saab96.html I still have to put more stuff up. The engine is 1835cc. I am in upstate NY going to college and the car is at my house in Lyndeborough NH.
 

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1967 Ford Cortina GT
1760cc
completed, oh next week or so
WA state
club rally car #267

I am not in favor of moving the cutoff up - would prefer a seperate post historic class for 72-77. A lot of cars showed up in 71/72 that changed rallying quite a bit, can't see a Hillman Imp or Cortina keeping up with them.

Rather than worrying so much about the rules, I think we all should focus on a) showing up at events (trying as hard as I can) and b) getting others to do the same.

Let's worry about the rules later.

Glenn
 

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To my knowledge, this is what is currently out there:

1. Has entered rallies as Historic Class, in order of appearance -

Cook - 1971? ex-Lahm 510 - east coast
Smith - 1968 MGBGT - midwest/east
Wheeler - 1968 MGBGT - midwest/south - currently not rallying
Byford - 1970? 2002 - west coast - may be going modern
Pritchard - 1968 Mini - midwest/east
Jenkins - 1972 Corvette (event exemption) - midwest

2. Being built with H Class of some sort in mind:

McCleery - Cortina twincam, ready this season?
Spears - 1965 Imp, ready this season?
Van Koughnet - 2002, who knows
Dunbar - 1964 Mini, who knows
Bradley - Cortina, who knows
McDonald - 1971? Volvo, ready this season?

3. Built, ?rally ready, ?H Class potential depending upon eventual rules

Kammer - 510, Alpine
ACP - 1963 Volvo 122S (presumed eligible via Appndx K)
How - 1968 Beetle
Wallace - Cortina Mk II, Escort Mk II
Vanlandingham - ?SAAB
Harvey - Colt (rumored)
Matt M - Volvo 142 (?interested in H Class)
Cullen - 1973 SAAB 96
Jones - MGB

4. Interested Parties

Ketelson - 1973 911 - car exists and is currently campaigned, modernized/modified to current G5 (1993 spec).

5. Potentially interested parties
Jones - 510
DeMotte - 510s
Reinke - TR7


There may be and of course probably are others. This is the list I can think of right now. Hope it's useful. I would point out to notice the slight preponderance of pre-1970 technology here.

My apologies to those I missed with this list.
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

>To my knowledge, this is what is currently out there:
Here's a little addition or two to the list, cars that I know because I have either built stuff for them or supplied parts for them.
Also note on the cars where I know what's up since I have talked with the owners.
>
>1. Has entered rallies as Historic Class, in order of
>appearance -
>
>Cook - 1971? ex-Lahm 510 - east coast
>Smith - 1968 MGBGT - midwest/east
>Wheeler - 1968 MGBGT - midwest/south - currently not
>rallying
>Byford - 1970? 2002 - west coast - may be going modern
>Pritchard - 1968 Mini - midwest/east
>Jenkins - 1972 Corvette (event exemption) - midwest
>
>2. Being built with H Class of some sort in mind:
>
>McCleery - Cortina twincam, ready this season? *
Probably not, Sierra beckons still


>Spears - 1965 Imp, ready this season?
>Van Koughnet - 2002, who knows
>Dunbar - 1964 Mini, who knows
>Bradley - Cortina, who knows*
Nah, never be done. Costs moneY to prep. Forget it, damn shame!

>McDonald - 1971? Volvo, ready this season?
>
>3. Built, ?rally ready, ?H Class potential depending upon
>eventual rules
>
>Kammer - 510, Alpine
>ACP - 1963 Volvo 122S (presumed eligible via Appndx K)*
Car is in London, across the sea, he'll be broke soon enough running that EVO thang, but the car isn't here so don't count eggs that aren't yet laid.
>How - 1968 Beetle
>Wallace - Cortina Mk II, Escort Mk II *
it's a MkI Exsquirt and not rally prepped, the rally Cortina is beautiful. But he's gonna flip it cause he's nuts! So it'll be off the list soon enough



>Harvey - Colt 197_4_? or 1975?(rumored)
>Matt M - Volvo 142 (?interested in H Class)
Jones- MGB

> Graham Cullen, Lyndeborough, NH - 1973 SAAB 96 *
be a while as he's going to do a year in college in Luleå, way the hell up in Lapp-träsket in Northern Sweden .

Dave Guilden, Tacoma, WA- 1973 Saab 96,*
done and for sale, contact John Vanlandingham, Guilden's moved to NYC and cars here just waiting for new belts

John Vanlandingham, Seattle, WA--1969 Saab 96

Nate Tennis,Seattle,WA-----1975? Saab 99

Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1979 Saab 99

Tom Bier, SanDiego, CA-----1975? Saab 99

Dave Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1977? Saab 99

Doug Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1976? Saab 99

Mike White, Dublin, NH----197? Saab 99

Pete Morris, SoCal--1973 Toyota Corolla

Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1974 Dodge Colt

Jim Thomson, North Bend, WA---1974 Dodge Colt

Roger Jackman, Bellingham, WA--1977 Dodge Colt

Dave Clark, Seattle,WA---------1979 Opel AsconaB

Dude in "way Northern suburb of Detroit"--1973 Saab 99

Geoff Clarke, in Grafton? MA------1977? Saab 99



Whoever buys the 1980 2 door Volvo 240 out front.

>
>4. Interested Parties
>
>Ketelson - 197_3_ 911 - car exists and is currently
>campaigned, modernized/modified to current G5 (1993 spec).
>
>5. Potentially interested parties
>Jones - 510 .......,68 thru 73
>DeMotte - 510s ....68 thru 73
>Reinke - TR7.....Late 70s
Pete Van Bogart, North Bend,WA-----1970 Saab 96 maybe
>


It's late, and I am sure I have forgotten some cars, and I think that the ammended list might be interesting to look at the differences on this and the original. It seems as though the preponderance may not be so tilted in any particular way.

>
>My apologies to those I missed with this list.

Now some of these guys I know have either never bothered to read these forums or only read them when a I suggest they look, and some are not interested in a restrictive H class as it is currently constituted. Now the debate on opening up the rules is still allegedly in the fluid state, the hard thing being to discuss a proposal that has already been sent to the PRB, when there is not any idea of what's in the proposal.

On this list we see that there are quite a number of 1973 to 1980 cars and everybody should remember that these cars really are not in essence any differently prepared than a currently legal car with max 197?, or currently proposed 1974 date which I have heard rumoured.

But that is a new thread....
Lets try and discuss what WE would like the class or classes to be here and remember, the official word is that YOU MUST WRITE THE DESIGNATED BY PRB H CLASS RULES _DRAFTSMAN_, and YOU SHOULD "C.C." everything you write here to both Mr.Smith and the PRB, Especially Christian Edström





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

OK, more for the list. I have:

73 SAAB 96 (absolutely rust free shell)
1700cc
...haven't started on it--still waiting to hear from John V. about Dave Guilden's car for sale.

77 Dodge Colt (FOR SALE!)
2000cc
needs cage updates and various odds and ends. Could be ready in a few weeks.
Somebody buy this, its container-load of spares including the fiberglass molds, and rally it!

65 Cortina MkI GT, plus MkI GT parts car
1500cc
already spoken for--will become a rally car soon.

79 Volvo 242 GT plus 80 GT parts car--all FOR SALE!
2100cc
I'll never finish it...needs a good home.

Too many cars, not enough time...

I went through all this rules stuff this time last year, reviewing the proposed changes, making comments to the PRB, urging the introduction of a Post-Historic Class, etc.

It should be different now that Phil Smith has a hand in it. He's a reasonable sort of guy who just wants everyone to have fun.


George Beckerman
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

>OK, more for the list. I have:
George,
>
>73 SAAB 96 (absolutely rust free shell)
>1700cc
>...haven't started on it--still waiting to hear from John V.
>about Dave Guilden's car for sale.

Give me a call at 206 431 9696 (nice easy to remember number, eh?) and send an email so I can send you some photos and spec. I thought we had gone thru this or maybe not, It was right when I was back in town and house hunting, now things are just ordinary level of panic.
>
>77 Dodge Colt (FOR SALE!)
>2000cc
>needs cage updates and various odds and ends. Could be ready
>in a few weeks.
>Somebody buy this, its container-load of spares including
>the fiberglass molds, and rally it!
>
>65 Cortina MkI GT, plus MkI GT parts car
>1500cc
>already spoken for--will become a rally car soon.
>
>79 Volvo 242 GT plus 80 GT parts car--all FOR SALE!
>2100cc
>I'll never finish it...needs a good home.
>
>Too many cars, not enough time...
>
>I went through all this rules stuff this time last year,
>reviewing the proposed changes, making comments to the PRB,
>urging the introduction of a Post-Historic Class, etc.

Drag it out and send it again, and CC Christian Edström
>
>It should be different now that Phil Smith has a hand in it.
>He's a reasonable sort of guy who just wants everyone to
>have fun.

Let's hope so, my initial suggestions for folks to write him generated a very grouchy/pouty email telling me to stop mouthing about my car my driving skills and my ethnicity and come out and support the class, a very confusing thing on a couple of grounds.
Firstly who is he to tell anybody to in essence shut up? And, as the class has been more or less his car only, what am I supossed to support?
And the bulk of the cars I added I have been helping in one form or the other, and aside from Sam Bryan's 1980 Saab 900 and Derek Bottles 88 Mazda and 88 VW Golf, Dave Kean's 89 Misterbitchy Gaylant, I don't think I have done much OTHER than support and build Pre-80 cars.

Let's hope Phil mellows out and opens his ears to possible broader ideas than his stated wishes for lawn-mower level technology, he doesn't seem to understand tyhat there are no differences in the _technology_ used in RALLY cars in those _produced in the different dates.
Later rally cars used the same stuff as earlier, most still do today.

See other post.
>
>
>George Beckerman





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

Did we talk about that car? I forgot. ... must have had another "vintage moment".

I'll call you.

George


Gravelgeez-z-z-z-z-er
Old drivers, old cars, short stages, lots of naps...
 

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From Phil Smith's point #2 in his post,
"Van Koughnet 2002 - who knows?"

For the register:
Rod Van Koughnet/Rick Lindsay
1968 BMW 1600
1600cc
completion date uncertain
Tulsa, OK

The "who knows" from Phil's note is appropriate. Progress is being made, but slowly. Due to spending constraints and gut-check questions on how badly we really want to enter into performance rally, we are scaling back our operation for the time being. I shared a rental of Mike Halley's SORT rally truck at Rally Sprint Oklahoma for my first behind the wheel exposure to performance rally. While I might have had "more fun than humans should be allowed," it was not sufficient to make me want to completely take the plunge and invest more $$$ in making my rally car project SCCA legal. "We" includes myself as driver/apprentice builder and Rick Lindsay as navigator/master project car builder. By summertime, 2003, we expect to be driving the car in TSD events. We do not anticipate installing a roll cage during 2003. So for now, consider this an incomplete historic rally project. We're having enough fun as TSD competitors and performance rally volunteers for the moment that we are hesitant to enter the performance rally fray and all the added expenses that go along with it (cage, trailer, tow vehicle, entry fees). After playing with the car for the next year, I see one of three directions to take:
1) Keep playing as in 2003
2) Finish it off with a roll cage and enter it in ClubRally
3) Offer it for sale as an 80% complete historic rally car project that is (hopefully) a joy to drive and very road worthy.

-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

>Did we talk about that car? I forgot. ... must have had
>another "vintage moment".
>
>I'll call you.
>
>George
>
>
>Gravelgeez-z-z-z-z-er
>Old drivers, old cars, short stages, lots of naps...
Yeah, I'm beginning to see what the future holds......
Call after dark my time OK?
>
>
>
>





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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I'm looking into JV's idea of importing an Escort shell. Barring that there's still that '64 Minx... (there'll always be that Minx. I've almost bought that car three times in the last twelve years!)

Jeremy Oreskovich
[email protected]

**"Will Rally For Food"**
 

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Updates to JV's list

Mike White, Dublin, NH----1980 Saab 99 GLi
2.0L K-Jet/CIS injection, n/a
Up to snuff (TTBOMK)

Sean Mullady, Leonard, MI = The "Dude in (wayyyy) northern suburbs of Detroit" --- '73 Saab 99
2.0L carb'd n/a (err, sorta redundant)
currently being updated
shooting for completion by CFR

Geoff Clarke, Pepperell, MA---1976 Saab 99
2.0L K-Jet/CIS injection, n/a
Up to snuff (TTBOMK)
 

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awesome_rogergibson

77 Datsun 280Z
2.8l
Terlingua TX SW Div
Updating cage, seats and belts
Couple of months

Ex Buffum natl champ car/then Smiskol/then Gibson
79 TR7
Needs work and new right side (co drivers side)Tom French was codriver
in its last event
After Buffum, the cars most famous moment was in a picture at the 82 Tostidos Cornado in Alpine AZ when Salty, Buffums mechanic, and I were looking under the hood while waiting for Tech. Buffum's Quartro was next in line for tech.

Headline read "Gibson leads Buffum at Tostado Cornado Rally"

Looking fwd to getting back after a ten year absence.

Awesome Roger Gibson
 

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Latest Cortina pix.



John is probably right about flipping it, I'll get some good pix first. Although I was driving in Grandma mode at Tbird, so who knows.

I haven't driven a RWD car hard on gravel in probably 15-20 years.

And yes, the Escort is a Mk 1 Twin Cam (RHD) and not rally prepped.

Glenn
 

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RE: Historic Registry and Post Historic

>
>John Vanlandingham, Seattle, WA--1969 Saab 96
>
>Nate Tennis,Seattle,WA-----1975? Saab 99
>
>Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1979 Saab 99
>
>Tom Bier, SanDiego, CA-----1975? Saab 99
I believe this car is a 1976 and is the same as Geoff Clarks, since If I am not mistaken, Geoff bought it from Tom about 3 years ago.


>Dave Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1977? Saab 99
>
>Doug Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1976? Saab 99
>
>Mike White, Dublin, NH----197? Saab 99
this is a 1980

>
>Pete Morris, SoCal--1973 Toyota Corolla
>
>Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1974 Dodge Colt
>
>Jim Thomson, North Bend, WA---1974 Dodge Colt
>
>Roger Jackman, Bellingham, WA--1977 Dodge Colt
>
>Dave Clark, Seattle,WA---------1979 Opel AsconaB
>
>Dude in "way Northern suburb of Detroit"--1973 Saab 99
>
>Geoff Clarke, in Grafton? MA------1977? Saab 99
>
Seth Strait, Burlinton VT------1978 Saab 99, used to belong to Jerry Sweet.

>
>
 

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RE: Update to JV's list - Again

John Vanlandingham, Seattle, WA--1969 Saab 96

Nate Tennis,Seattle,WA-----1975? Saab 99

Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1979 Saab 99

Tom Bier, SanDiego, CA-----1975? Saab 99
I believe this car is a 1976 and is the same as Geoff
Clarks, since If I am not mistaken, Geoff bought it from Tom
about 3 years ago.


Dave Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1977? Saab 99

Doug Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1976? Saab 99

Mike White, Dublin, NH----197? Saab 99
this is a 1980


Pete Morris, SoCal--1973 Toyota Corolla

Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1974 Dodge Colt
Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1975 Dodge Colt
Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1979 Fire Arrow

Jim Thomson, North Bend, WA---1974 Dodge Colt

Roger Jackman, Bellingham, WA--1977 Dodge Colt

Dave Clark, Seattle,WA---------1979 Opel AsconaB

Dude in "way Northern suburb of Detroit"--1973 Saab 99

Geoff Clarke, in Grafton? MA------1977? Saab 99

Seth Strait, Burlinton VT------1978 Saab 99, used to belong
to Jerry Sweet.
 

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RE: Update to JV's list - Again

>John Vanlandingham, Seattle, WA--1969 Saab 96
>
>Nate Tennis,Seattle,WA-----1975? Saab 99
Car is no longer-being replaced with SAAB 900
>
>Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1975 Saab 99
>Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1967 SAAB MC 850
Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1967 SAAB MC V4
Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1969 SAAB V4
Sean Tennis, Seattle,WA-----1979 SAAB 99T
Several other toys that could be thrashed if needed!

>Tom Bier, SanDiego, CA-----1975? Saab 99
>I believe this car is a 1976 and is the same as Geoff
>Clarks, since If I am not mistaken, Geoff bought it from Tom
>about 3 years ago.
>
>
>Dave Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1977? Saab 99
>
>Doug Schrenk, Seattle,WA--1976? Saab 99
>
>Mike White, Dublin, NH----197? Saab 99
>this is a 1980
>
>
>Pete Morris, SoCal--1973 Toyota Corolla
>
>Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1974 Dodge Colt
>Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1975 Dodge Colt
>Rich Smith, North Bend,WA-----1979 Fire Arrow
>
>Jim Thomson, North Bend, WA---1974 Dodge Colt
>
>Roger Jackman, Bellingham, WA--1977 Dodge Colt
>
>Dave Clark, Seattle,WA---------1979 Opel AsconaB
>
>Dude in "way Northern suburb of Detroit"--1973 Saab 99
>
>Geoff Clarke, in Grafton? MA------1977? Saab 99
>
>Seth Strait, Burlinton VT------1978 Saab 99, used to belong
>to Jerry Sweet.
 

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I have a play/ rally car as well, and I do intend to run it in some club rallies at some point, but for now even club rallies are pricey. However, keep in mind that you can still run TSD's as you mentioned, as well as: Rally and auto crosses, hill climbs, scca track days etc. Plenty of ways to get seat time for not to much money.

Seth S



>The "who knows" from Phil's note is appropriate. Progress
>is being made, but slowly. Due to spending constraints and
>gut-check questions on how badly we really want to enter
>into performance rally, we are scaling back our operation
>for the time being. I shared a rental of Mike Halley's SORT
>rally truck at Rally Sprint Oklahoma for my first behind the
>wheel exposure to performance rally. While I might have had
>"more fun than humans should be allowed," it was not
>sufficient to make me want to completely take the plunge and
>invest more $$$ in making my rally car project SCCA legal.
>"We" includes myself as driver/apprentice builder and Rick
>Lindsay as navigator/master project car builder. By
>summertime, 2003, we expect to be driving the car in TSD
>events. We do not anticipate installing a roll cage during
>2003. So for now, consider this an incomplete historic
>rally project. We're having enough fun as TSD competitors
>and performance rally volunteers for the moment that we are
>hesitant to enter the performance rally fray and all the
>added expenses that go along with it (cage, trailer, tow
>vehicle, entry fees). After playing with the car for the
>next year, I see one of three directions to take:
>1) Keep playing as in 2003
>2) Finish it off with a roll cage and enter it in ClubRally
>3) Offer it for sale as an 80% complete historic rally car
>project that is (hopefully) a joy to drive and very road
>worthy.
>
>-Rod Van Koughnet
>Tulsa, OK
 
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