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your other left, you idiot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I used my HANS for the 2nd time at OTPR.

This car had very long (to the back of the passenger compartment) shoulder belts. I believe that this is what caused my right belt to constantly slip off the HANS. This reinforces that proper belt mounting is critical (see Ralph's car). The HANS is not a plug and play in all cars as the car is currently set up.

After the DUH from my last post (after Doo ****), on transits I pulled both quick releases (so that my helmet was not attached to the HANS - but the HANS was still on my neck, and under the shoulder belts). This allowed unrestricted neck movement to either side - which helps on checking for other traffic at intersections. So no side visibility problems.

Reading notes was no problem (Doo **** was a blind rally).

Once again, the HANS does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to keep your head and neck from going to the side (it works for frontal movements). This is where side nets (not window nets) and seat head bolsters come in. Take a look at Ralph Kosmides' car at Rim. He has the inner nets in (that we used at Doo **** - no vision or movement problems), and might have the outboard ones in by then.

Once again - highly recommended. Does this do any good most of the time? - No. It is for catastrophic crashes, the extremely low frequency, but high severity ones.

press on,
 

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One of the things recommended in the Safety Seminar at the SCCA convention was to ?x? the shoulder belts between the seat and the belt mounting bar if the mounting bar is a distance away from the back of the seat. This keeps the belts close together as they come through the seat. As far as driving with the Hans, I cannot tell I?m wearing one while ?on stage?. The allowable head movement is within the range of way sideways driving. I do not think it would be a problem even in a tail happy RWD car (Supra). Look at the crash data and the slow motion movies. Then order your Hans today. You will NEVER see me in a racecar again without one.

Ralph Kosmides
 

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A proposal in the GCR for the SCCA is to permit 2" wide shoulder belts if you use a HANS. They recognize the issue.

If you do not use a HANS, you would have to put 3" shoulder belts back in.

Don't know whether this will be carried over to the Rally Rules.

Cheers.
 

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In fact the new Schroth belts I got state in the instructions that shoulder belts must be crossed if the attachement point in more than 18" from the seatback.

Lee
 

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your other left, you idiot
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3,909 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
>How do 2" belts help the situation?

Allegedly they sit better on the HANS. Schroth sells shoulder belts optimized for the HANS. They are 3" over your chest, and 2" over the HANS and back to the mounting. These belts are ONLY to be used in conjunction with the HANS. Schroth's brochure says that FIA, CART, and NASCAR have changed their rules to allow this application. SCCA rally rules appear to still require 3" belts (5.3 - pg 31 in the 2004 book).

press on,
 

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straight at T
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2,472 Posts
>>How do 2" belts help the situation?
>
>Allegedly they sit better on the HANS. Schroth sells
>shoulder belts optimized for the HANS. They are 3" over
>your chest, and 2" over the HANS and back to the mounting.
>These belts are ONLY to be used in conjunction with the
>HANS. Schroth's brochure says that FIA, CART, and NASCAR
>have changed their rules to allow this application. SCCA
>rally rules appear to still require 3" belts (5.3 - pg 31 in
>the 2004 book).
>
>press on,

Shame on you, Jimmy! ;-)

Read PRTB 031004 in the May Fastrack. It basically says that if it is FIA certified, the belt doesn't have to meet the SCCA width limitations, and part of the justification is the 2" HANS-specific belts.

Adrian
 

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your other left, you idiot
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Doh.

I stand (or sit) corrected. Thanks Adrian. Geesh, Calgary ekes one out over Detroit; and Pat Richard wins OTPR; and Doug Woods leads in the ProPicks - hmmm - some kind of Northern plot here?

Now, what do the Canadian rules say?

press on,
 

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>Now, what do the Canadian rules say?

From NRR II.C.3:

... It is highly recommended that the belts be homologated by the FIA and comply with FIA standard no 8853/98.
... If the harness is not homologated by the FIA, the following minimum widths apply:
(i) The width of the crotch and pelvic straps shall not be less than 44 mm. (1.73" )
(ii) The parts of the crotch straps which are not in contact with the user's thighs may have a minimum width of 25 mm. (0.98" )
(iii) The width of the shoulder straps shall not be less than 70 mm. (2.76" ) ...

So it's the same idea: 3" shoulder belts (well, at least 2.76" ) or FIA homologated.
 
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