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Dirt surfer
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Sweet! What a concept...adapting a class to what people are actually doing???!! Jeez, et's dare to hope that this sensible organizational behavior starts catching on elsewhere.

And that little zinger about rotary motors needing to have SCCA IT legal porting....that might could maybe possibly explain why Jake is selling his nassty fassty rassty Husqvarmazda.

Only time will tell if GpF can truly live after Jake forsakes the buzz saw. }(


DG

"...Embrace loose gravel, beware big trees..."
 

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OK,
I am no expert but looking at those wieght charts....WOW!
Is any body even near the wieght limit?
They seem very low.
What does your car tip the scales at?
Now please no BS bench racer number, who has had their G2 car on scales?
 

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868 Posts
I think this is a good move by RA. It would be nice to corresponding moves by NASA and CARS.
The weights look a little low for modern cars, but for 4 cylinder vehicles made in the 70's they look about right.
 

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1,132 Posts
Why mess with a proven theory. I'm talking Suomilainen poikkas here.

We've all been building slugs that are heavy. Group F allows some pretty sweet badass cars.

Hat are off to Rally America for the focus. My shirt is off to JB Niday just because he's a chest hair perv.

It just makes so much sense. Nice to have a sanctioning body that has it's finger on the pulse of the everyday rally dude.
 

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731 Posts
>OK,
>I am no expert but looking at those wieght charts....WOW!
>Is any body even near the wieght limit?
>They seem very low.
>What does your car tip the scales at?
>Now please no BS bench racer number, who has had their G2 car
>on scales?
>


Weighed the 1987 golf gti at Cherokee trails this year. 2.0l 16v so minimum weight of 2205lbs...

2268lbs with the following: Pretty much everything and ZERO lighweight go-fast bits...
Spare
tools
3/4 tank of fuel
light bar with 4 lights
56lb steel skidplate
Full glass windows everywhere
steel seat brackets
Rear wiper and motor complete
full underbody goop/undercoating
10lb of dynamat on the inside of the floors
full doors with factory impact bars and door panels
full bumpers with unmolested factory bumper supports
TWO suitcase sized MUFFLERS

The car is roughly the same weight now despite ~10ft of cage additions and a new stronger skidplate (~12ft of 1.5" .095 wall tube for the frame and a large piece of 3/16" aluminum).
I would have to keep the tank full just to keep above the minimum weight...

With the old rules, I could have easily removed 150+lbs for $1000 but now, that is not an option (for RA at least).

Just doing a lightpod (save 20+lbs), plexi rear windows (save 10+lbs), remove factory door beams (13lbs each), and a carbon hood (5lbs vs ~30) and some more undercoating removal would drop nearly ~100lbs.
 

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2. Rotary engines (only)
a. Any porting or polishing is prohibited.

Wouldn't be easier to just say "Any porting or polishing is prohibited"?

:D


>And that little zinger about rotary motors needing to have
>SCCA IT legal porting....
 

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just another old phart
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2,258 Posts
Eric,

Maybe it's picking nits but I don't see that RA is making GF an official class. They have just redefined the parameters of what is acceptable in G2, but it's still G2, not GF.

Am I just making an argument in semantics?

Kent Gardam
 

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don't lift over crest > dust
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302 Posts
I was under the impression that Rotaries were not allowed in G2, especially using the 1.8 multiplier (edit: I now realize, after reading the new ruling closely, that the change now allows rotaries in G2). Also, turbos are allowed in G2, but not in GF. So if I'm not mistaken, my RX-7 Turbo is now in G2 while I'm running RA events.

Cable Rhodes
CRNC G5 Champ
'05 CRS 2WD Open champ
 

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Big Jump 800
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716 Posts
Which part did you read that led you to think turbos are allowed in G2?

2006-004 only replaced 10.2.B.8.b it doesn't replace the opening paragraph of 10.2.B.8 which states:

"Group 2 Class: Vehicles must be 2WD normally aspirated models sold globally in minimum quantities of 1000. Drive configuration must remain as originally manufactured (front-engine, front-drive; front-engine, rear-drive, etc.)"

J.B. Niday
Watch Rally America on OLN!
 

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Trogdor
Joined
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915 Posts
>Sweet! What a concept...adapting a class to what people are
>actually doing???!! Jeez, et's dare to hope that this sensible
>organizational behavior starts catching on elsewhere.
>
>And that little zinger about rotary motors needing to have
>SCCA IT legal porting....that might could maybe possibly
>explain why Jake is selling his nassty fassty rassty
>Husqvarmazda.
>
>Only time will tell if GpF can truly live after Jake forsakes
>the buzz saw. }(
>

I dunno... you can still do a lot without any porting. If your ducks are in a row, 200ish HP is available, but the exhaust *will* be obnoxious (well, hmm) and you won't get the nice fat midrange that you get with a decently ported engine, it will mostly be top-end stuff with merely a middling midrange.

On the OTHER hand... with decent compression, beefier connecting rods, and the usual independent throttles and good exhaust, you can pull much more than that out of a Duratech 4-cylinder (Rangers, Foci, Mazda3/6/MX-5) without going near the heads or factory camshafts. 250ish HP from 5500 to the mid 7's, camshaft limited. With more cam, more power...
 

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don't lift over crest > dust
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302 Posts
Thanks for pointing it out, J.B.! I really don't know how to read. Anyway, my mistake, too much work today, me go seepy now.


Cable Rhodes
 

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Trogdor
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915 Posts
>OK,
>I am no expert but looking at those wieght charts....WOW!
>Is any body even near the wieght limit?
>They seem very low.

I want to see some 1500 pound Swifts, Metros, and Sprints, myself.

On the other claw, some of those Sprints start out at about 1750-1800 pounds. There's got to be somebody making performance goodies for the engines, and as a bonus you could always take a "16 VALVE" badge off of something and knock off the one before tenderly affixing it to the tailgate with high-grade duct tape.
 

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Registered
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258 Posts
>Weighed the 1987 golf gti at Cherokee trails this year. 2.0l
>16v so minimum weight of 2205lbs...
>
>2268lbs with the following: Pretty much everything and ZERO
>
>3/4 tank of fuel
>
>I would have to keep the tank full just to keep above the
>minimum weight...

Take a look at 10.2.B.6.a. The vehicle weight is measured without fuel, driver and co-driver and their equipment (but with spare, tools, etc...). Looks like by your numbers you would need to add a few pounds.

I plan to weigh my '87 GTI this weekend. We'll see how close I am. Luckily I have a 1.8l 16v, so it might be okay without ballast. But I think a lot of the top 16v GTI's will need to add ballast. With the popularity of these in G2, enforcement might be tricky...

Erik Christiansen
 

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I have a cat.
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3,676 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
2001 Protege with plex rear and rear-side windows, no undercoating, no seam sealer, no interior, gutted rear doors, stock tank, 7lb. carbon fiber hood, very big/thick skidplate=2850 ready to go with pod and a half a tank of fuel.

Pitiful. But I still like the rules. It will be hard for modern cars to get to that, but that's the challenge.

I could add a couple cylinders...
 

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I have a cat.
Joined
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3,676 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
>Eric,
>
>Maybe it's picking nits but I don't see that RA is making GF
>an official class. They have just redefined the parameters of
>what is acceptable in G2, but it's still G2, not GF.
>
>Am I just making an argument in semantics?

No, you are right. This is even better in my opinion. We originally wanted to change G2, but adopted our own formula (GF) that we recognized amongst ourselves. The fact that it replaces G2 is better.
 
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