[rallymodeller]

OK, I have a question.

Now bear with me, it's been a while I was last on the site (lost the hand-crank for my three-phase Apple PowerPC)

True or false:

Group B banned from N/A Rally?
Can it maybe sneak in under vintage rules?
Or is my pipe dream of putting a Metro 6R4 just that?

Jeremy aka Rallymodeller (Will work for any rally car [even a Lada])

"Racing is life...
All else is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen

"Our Car is F***ed"
-Team Skoda co-driver Tina Turner

 

[Adrian Wintle]

>True or false:
>
>Group B banned from N/A Rally?
>Can it maybe sneak in under vintage rules?
>Or is my pipe dream of putting a Metro 6R4 just that?

Group B cars built after 1982 (i.e. less than 20 years old) would likely be legal for Open class as long as the safety equipment met the current rules (likely most GpB cages won't), they aren't too light, and they don't have any technology that is banned for Open class (I doubt if they do). They are way too modern for vintage.

Whether one would want to run a GpB car (the 6R4 being an exception to the following comments because it still is an active car in Britain and therefore has support) is a different question. The parts are basically made of unobtanium, and there are no spares. The Sprongl's Audi ran a Lehman GpB motor and each time they hurt it they were out for at least 4 months while it went home to be repaired/rebuilt. I'm sure that most other competetive GpB cars would be the same.

In another vein, there's 20 years of technology catchup that needs to be done. For an example, watch the 1999 (I think?) Charlevoix rally tape - Sprongl in what is effectively a GpB long wheelbase Audi against Buffum in a GpN Mitsu. It's educational.

Adrian

 

[mgpsmith]

We briefly toyed with the idea of buying the 6R4 that had been adverted in VA a year or so ago....it seemed the logical step for MG enthusiasts. The expense of the car and its support seemed steep, which means I would be unlikely to go out and spank it hard like a rally car should be. And what really cinched our decision (for now) to not pursue a 6R4 was the repeated statement on the 6R4 video we have that the cockpit of the machine is an intensely hot place....and this driver doesn't do well in intense heat.

 

[Foghorn]

But after your comments about the temperature in the B at SnoDrift, wouldn't that make the 6R4 the perfect winter car?

Kent Gardam

 

[Morgan]

Speaking of which, does anyone know of any people who have a "collection" of Group B cars in the states, especially competition versions?

 

[mgpsmith]

You know, you're right. Just as soon as I find another pile of retirement savings to loot and pilage, I'll buy myself a winter MG rally car! Now if I could figger out how to have the 'B's lack of heat translate to a pleasant summer rally drive...

 

[DonSwier]

>Speaking of which, does anyone know of any people who have a
>"collection" of Group B cars in the states, especially
>competition versions?

Larry Vollum in Portland, OR has a fine collection of Grp B cars (Audi Sport Quattro, Pug 205t16, Lancia Delta S4, Ford RS200, Metro 6R4... )

He often brings one or two of them to the local RallyCrosses (enters them, too)
:9 }> :9

The biggest problem he has is wiping off the drool marks from hopeless Grp B nuts like me!

There's also a beautiful 959 driven as a street car in Portland. The owner was very gracious to let me have a close-up look at the one-time Grp B hopeful (of course, this was after I'd trailed him 6 blocks to his parking lot to verify it was the real deal:7 ). As pristine as the 959 is, I doubt he'd be interested in getting it too dirty.

 

[Morgan]

Thanks Don, are they competition cars or Street cars? I remember the white RS200 at Oregon Trails, I assume that is his. Do you know how to contact him?
You can email me the info [email protected]

An interesting personal group B story (I think, at least):
In 1982, my dad was talking about buying an Audi Quattro, and I remember all the hype that surrounded it, how it was going to change the car market and it would be worth something like a $100grand after a few years time and a few World Championships. We had just moved into a new house on Long Island, and I am standing in our driveway when this Bright Red Audi Quattro Coupe with Rally lights comes down the street (this was before the car was introduced in the US), and I go running out in the middle of the street and stop him (I was about 11 years old and learned to read from C/D and R&T) and introduce myself. Turns out my new neighbors were diplomats from Spain and imported the car Grey Market to the US. They went on to became good friends and they bought me my first SLR camera as a highschool graduation gift. I did not follow rally until a few years later but the irony that a Group B Rally car lead to me becoming a photographer then photography led me back into rally

 

[Topi]

- The cheapest GrB car to build and own could be '82-85 Celica Turbo. There's already one replica in Canada ( I supplied some parts to him).
- This car can be build for $ 10 000:
- Star with $ 2000 street car, solid axle '82-83 Celica GT.
- Buy 3TG-TE turbo engine and 5 speed from Japanese engine importer (GrB had 4GT-TE engine, same but bigger stroke - doesn't matter much)
- Tranny will be W55 - good as is
- GrB rear end was FORD 9" - easy to find!
- Mount head lights straight-up
- Buy plenty of decals and that's it! A fun car for pennies compared to other GrBs.
- If you want more modern engine, use MR2 Turbo 3SG-TE engine. I have bellhousings for RWD 5 speed.

PS. Morgan - that AUDI was a GrA & N model. GrB was "Quattro Sport" - the short one.
- There's one real GrB RS200 in California. It's an ex King of Jordan rally car. Very rough looking piece of %#@(*. They want "only" $ 150 000 for it...

 

[Morgan]

>
>PS. Morgan - that AUDI was a GrA & N model. GrB was "Quattro
>Sport" - the short one.

According to the book I have, the Original Quattro was Homolgated as a group 4 car, but through fancy paperwork, a revised long wheelbase version (Quattro A1+A2) was re-homolgated for 83 as a Group B. The Quattro Sport was released in the middle of 84.

Topi, do you know where and how to locate that car? I am looking for classic rally cars with possible history.

 

[lowie]

Regarding spares for the Metro 6R4, they are still available through www.metro6r4.com the main agent for 6R4 spares so, i wouldn't say theres a problem getting stuff over to the US as a lot of rally cars and spares come from the UK.

Regarding in car temperatures then fit and modify the following.
Roof vent for cool air in to the cabin,cut some holes in to the rear perspex window to take heat away or fit bigger side window vents available from the above site.

Another point about rollcages is where the original is fitted inside of the door posts as works built, build another cage to run inside the car or buy one from the network of rollcage specialists in the UK which are all certified.
If anyone wants any video footage of these cars works or private send me a PM VHS/PAL ONLY
Mark Lowe (UK)
6R4 fan/Rally model car builder


Bagpuss Motorsport Rally Servicing
"Rallying, its dirty and you want it".
If its not dented your'e not trying :9

 

[SagSert]

I have access to an RS200 Evo, one of 23 RS200s specificly built for rally together with COA from Ford. I checked the legitimacy of this car through FMS and it checks out. I had a buyer for it in Europe who turned out to be a flake. I can contact the owner if there is a real buyer.

I did one race (Rothmans Bravo Rally) in a 6R4 in the 80s and yes it gets too hot inside, you can't drive a transfer stage without headphones and if you brake the link of the swaybar on the right rear corner of the car YOU WILL BURN YOUR RIGHT WRIST LIKE AN IDIOT trying to ductape it up so that it doesn't dangle and catch something in the stage. However the brakes are inrcedible, the power is very entertaining and the roadholding is impecable as long as you have all your airfoils intact, if you land a little too heavy on your nose and brake the front airdam the car starts understeering like a maniac, if you cut a R3 and clip your roof spoiler with the branches that were hanging down a bit you suffer from loss of traction all the way to the service. It's not an easy car to drive and maintain, but I'd do it again without any reservations.

Cheers

M.Samli

 

[mgpsmith]

Thanks you guys. Thanks a lot. I thought I was over the 6R4 thing, that I'd actually start putting something in savings, that I'd stick with rallying an MGB.....now I'm going to start drowning in my own slobber again. Thanks a lot.

 

[Morgan]

Saving Money is overrated:+

 

[SeanKHotay]

Ok...Stupid New Fart question: What's an 6R4?

What the subject says.... :7

 

[Morgan]

RE: Ok...Stupid New Fart question: What's an 6R4?

http://www.courtney-msport.com/02-larkinthepark/fsimages/02-larkinthepark-0062.jpg

 

[Adrian Wintle]

RE: Ok...Stupid New Fart question: What's an 6R4?

What he said. British Leyland's Group B car was the MG Metro 6R4 which was unique in being the only normally-aspirated 4wd Group B car. It had a 3.5? litre V6 in the back. To avoid the whole 'evolution versions' hassle, BL built 200 rally cars rather than building 200 street cars and then evolving a rally car from them. This is probably why there are so many of them still around and active.

Adrian

 

[lowie]

RE: Ok...Stupid New Fart question: What's an 6R4?

The metro 6R4 engine had a 3.0LV6 in it but other people put 2.5,2.8,3.8V6 and 4.2V8's in them.
Overall to this day they are the most successful Group B car to still rally
Now thats a 6r4




If its not dented your'e not trying

 

[DonSwier]

>Thanks Don, are they competition cars or Street cars? I
>remember the white RS200 at Oregon Trails, I assume that is
>his. Do you know how to contact him?
>You can email me the info [email protected]
>

Morgan,

Sorry, I don't have Larry Vollum's contact info. You might post in the PNW forum (perhaps others know how to reach him).

The guy with the 959 (Page Stevens) owns Stevens Marine in Tigard,OR.

Good luck! :7

 

[Morgan]

Thanks Don!