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Sorry how long this is. I'm not really sure on the rules so if you need to delete or move this thread moderator, go ahead.

I've always fantasized about making a modern, better made group b car than the originals. I've done a lot of research on it, but I know my family/friends would never let me do something like this after the problems I've had in my life. Or more likely, they would encourage me to do it then go out of there way to make it either unpleasant or impossible. I'm a really terrible person, so it's fair. I have no doubt I'll spend the rest of my pathetic life watching other people moving ahead of me, I expect an old enemy of mine will read this thread and take all of me "ingenious" ideas and use them while screwing

Nevertheless I thought I would share what I've wasted my time researching, there aren't a lot of specifics because a lot of it was in my head but here are the basics. I always thought it would be cool to make one, rally it for advertising purposes but obviously not officially because it wouldn't be considered a normal car. Then you could try to sell a bunch of them. Personally I think it should be mid or preferably rear engined. The idea was more of an experiment than anything, but I think if a person could get used to it it would be much faster than modern wrc cars. It would have to be made from scratch, so obviously if you want to sell it it can't really be that great of a chassis, but I think if it's purpose built maybe it could still be better than what's available. Maybe it could be sold as a kit. For a While I only considered front engine because I didn't think anything else could work, but I MIGHT've been wrong. I'm not an engineer or anything. I have a lot of engineers in my family though, and what they always taught me is that often there's a way people haven't thought of.

I spent a lot time on "theory" aka, asking myself "what is the difference between a race car and a rally car?" and I came up with something like this

-It has to be cheaper to make and repair
-It has to be better at sharp corners
-able to drift easily, aka not too twitchy
-mcpherson struts might be the way to go even thouhg double wishbone seems better, I'm guessing the steering geometry is better or something and that's why it's popular? I thought it had to do with better damping initially but I don't think so now. I never got deep into figuring out what the ideal steering geometry would be and don't know too much about how it works. I know they used double wishbone on the celica for a while but switched back, I'm guessing maybe that was just because the suspension wasn't originally designed to be double wishbone so the steering geometry didn't work?

and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting.




-Mid/rear engine is good, but you need serious four wheel steering (and a lower steering ratio) and/or a longer wheelbase (approx 98-110 inch) inor it will probably be too twitchy. The 4 wheel steering allows for better suspension geometry (lower roll center) in back which will cause transition understeer instead of oversteer and increase overall grip by a lot. The main issue is that rear wheel steering has to be designed in a way that compensates for the tendancy for rear steered wheels to oversteer, i think it might be impossible to tune it out but some positive toe and a LOT of
anti-ackerman would probably work
-Mid engine has the advantage of being easier to make safe because the engine is behind so you have more room for crash device
-Make it from scratch
-The level of aero that you use has to be = to the amount of suspension travel/stiffness you choose. People will probably prefer a car that doesn't have too much aero for comfort reasons
-it should look cool, the old group b cars were dumb and boxy looking, except maybe the rs200. nobody in america wants a car with round headlights unless it's an old muscle car imho
-make it wide, people like to buy wide cars. I was thinking of modelling it after the 037 but with a more aerodynamic front end
-integral roll cage, obviously
-limit it to 3000lbs or whatever the minimum currently is
- Suspension needs to be double wishbone with low roll center
- Good damping is important, inboard shocks would be great but you could in theory just use high quality McPherson struts with a custom made hub (still using two wishbones)
-Make the front roll center higher than the back or just make the front spring rates very high
-Make sure there isn't so much grip that it can't be drifted
-A short wheelbase would be nice because you can get around sharp corners much easier but more than likely it's not possible to make it stable no matter what you do, so there's no point. maybe
if it were front engined
-It's probably important to make sure it's not too wide for it's length



There's probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting and probably a thing or two i said which isn't true. I'm kind of half-assing this at the moment like i do everything. I realize that this thread probably wont come to much, and I apologize unless it's something people feel like talking about (i wont take part, it's no good for me) but I'm just hoping that I might've helped someone else who had a similar dream.

As far as making it street legal is concerned it has to be crash tested and you need a bumper that can withstand a 5mph crash (without damage? without costing too much to replace?).

Anyway maybe this is something to talk about, maybe it's in the wrong forum, maybe the moderator will delete this for some reason. Whatever, i'm trying my best to make up for all the time i wasted on an obsession I'll never have any purpose for. I hope you'll succeed where I've failed. you could probably do a good prototype by using a mid/early 90s honda with 4ws and custom hubs
for the rear to see if you can get a lot of rear wheel steering without excessive oversteer. okay I have to stop thinking about this, bye.
 
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