Gee, is that all for a GrN? And we all were complaining that it would be expensive! Shame on us }>
GP N....top spec.
Has anybody out there done some research on what a truely TOP Spec. Gp N car entails?
I mean yeah we have Gp N cars here, both Subaru's and EVO's but most cars are stock w/32mm restrictor and maybe a gearbox.
Kulig's car for example. He should have won Cherokee Trails overall in his N car.
Something along the lines of Tapi Laukkenens (Sp?) or David Higgens car that is run in the British rally championship.
I curious about engine, transmission, differentials, electronics etc. I've heard stories, rumors, etc. but was wondering what everyone else thought. I priced out a top Spec. Subaru from the Prodrive website and it was around $150,000.
I was also happy to see that Subaru is selling a WRC series 8 car now.....for 330,000 lbs (approx. $528,000 w/ no spares).....
Brian
I mean yeah we have Gp N cars here, both Subaru's and EVO's but most cars are stock w/32mm restrictor and maybe a gearbox.
Kulig's car for example. He should have won Cherokee Trails overall in his N car.
Something along the lines of Tapi Laukkenens (Sp?) or David Higgens car that is run in the British rally championship.
I curious about engine, transmission, differentials, electronics etc. I've heard stories, rumors, etc. but was wondering what everyone else thought. I priced out a top Spec. Subaru from the Prodrive website and it was around $150,000.
I was also happy to see that Subaru is selling a WRC series 8 car now.....for 330,000 lbs (approx. $528,000 w/ no spares).....
Brian
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Also, while you are at it, you might try pricing out a 'top spec' Open class car as well... Prodrive sells them as well. Its not cheaper.
(from someone who has driven 5 different Grp N cars in competition in the last 12 months)
Seriously though, we dont have any top spec cars in NA. High spec, not top spec. The main differences are in the subtle areas where big money translates into small gains.
Like, min weight car and shell, blueprinted engine to max tolerances, highest grade fuel, engine mapped for fuel and the event (alt. plus car configuration), dogbox with semi-active differentials, optimized weight distribution. Basically, the 'Super N' specs.
Most of the stuff I've just listed most people will never do to their Grp N cars. Even at the UK events I've seen, there are only 2 cars with the max max going on. In australia, there are about 6 or 7 cars with the max max going on.
Here at home, there was a fairly max grp N car kicking around, that was the one I drove at LSPR. But that was an older spec car. But still 'top spec 1 year old'. I think it listed at asking price of $70,000'. It is widely regarded that a well-driven top spec Group N car should be as fast or faster than 3-4 year old A8 cars.
But like I've said before, 'top spec' Open is still even more $$.
And 'the last 10% costing 75% more' is a 10% that I beleive even if you spent the money on it, as a competitor, few people would be able to take advantage of it. In other words, if you just had a fairly high spec car (i.e. good ECU and a good gearbox) and drove it well, you could probably outdrive the 10% that someone who wasn't driving well but could outspend you gained. Or to put it another way, the only time you would go 'that last mile' was if everything was max max max to begin with. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. But if you were competing against 'top spec' Open or 'top old spec' WRC/A8 cars, it would be worth it, because you would still be spending less but still being competitive.
(from someone who has driven 5 different Grp N cars in competition in the last 12 months)
Seriously though, we dont have any top spec cars in NA. High spec, not top spec. The main differences are in the subtle areas where big money translates into small gains.
Like, min weight car and shell, blueprinted engine to max tolerances, highest grade fuel, engine mapped for fuel and the event (alt. plus car configuration), dogbox with semi-active differentials, optimized weight distribution. Basically, the 'Super N' specs.
Most of the stuff I've just listed most people will never do to their Grp N cars. Even at the UK events I've seen, there are only 2 cars with the max max going on. In australia, there are about 6 or 7 cars with the max max going on.
Here at home, there was a fairly max grp N car kicking around, that was the one I drove at LSPR. But that was an older spec car. But still 'top spec 1 year old'. I think it listed at asking price of $70,000'. It is widely regarded that a well-driven top spec Group N car should be as fast or faster than 3-4 year old A8 cars.
But like I've said before, 'top spec' Open is still even more $$.
And 'the last 10% costing 75% more' is a 10% that I beleive even if you spent the money on it, as a competitor, few people would be able to take advantage of it. In other words, if you just had a fairly high spec car (i.e. good ECU and a good gearbox) and drove it well, you could probably outdrive the 10% that someone who wasn't driving well but could outspend you gained. Or to put it another way, the only time you would go 'that last mile' was if everything was max max max to begin with. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. But if you were competing against 'top spec' Open or 'top old spec' WRC/A8 cars, it would be worth it, because you would still be spending less but still being competitive.
I would think that a top Open car would be more than $150,000 and less than $530,000.
All I'm saying is that for 99.9% of us who have to go to a job to pay for our rallying $150,000 is the same as $530,000.......we don't have either.
Brian
All I'm saying is that for 99.9% of us who have to go to a job to pay for our rallying $150,000 is the same as $530,000.......we don't have either.
Brian
I agree completely, but I dont think it is the car classes that is the problem, it is that
if you define a healthy series as one in which competitors can attract enough support through marketing sponsorships where those sponsors feel that they are getting something of value in return, and that said competitors and marketing partners can see a growth path for each other and their marketing efforts
...
those guys running those top spec N cars (75% more $$ for 10% more speed) aren't paying for them, in Australia or UK or Europe.
if you define a healthy series as one in which competitors can attract enough support through marketing sponsorships where those sponsors feel that they are getting something of value in return, and that said competitors and marketing partners can see a growth path for each other and their marketing efforts
...
those guys running those top spec N cars (75% more $$ for 10% more speed) aren't paying for them, in Australia or UK or Europe.
Yep, that's the case in both Canada (even with awesome TV coverage) and the U.S.
Oh well, the rally car is parked for now and I'll begin racing my mountain bike. Last weekend there were 500 riders, every bike manufacturer had a trailer there with factory mechanics to fix customers bikes (for free). Show up to the Gary Fischer trailer and let the pro's tune up your bike..........
I just don't know how to market myself or Rally effectively. I've given it a go and gotten some product support but as any form of racing, it's very expensive.
Any marketing majors out there looking for a Senior or Graduate Thesis?
Brian
Oh well, the rally car is parked for now and I'll begin racing my mountain bike. Last weekend there were 500 riders, every bike manufacturer had a trailer there with factory mechanics to fix customers bikes (for free). Show up to the Gary Fischer trailer and let the pro's tune up your bike..........
I just don't know how to market myself or Rally effectively. I've given it a go and gotten some product support but as any form of racing, it's very expensive.
Any marketing majors out there looking for a Senior or Graduate Thesis?
Brian
I think it is possible in Canada. We have about the same # of Cdn vs. American drivers that are getting funded (about 5) but only one factory team vs. 3. But none of the non-factory funded Canadian drivers live outside of Quebec. So maybe amend that to 'if you live in Quebec'.
Why do you think I've parked my Open class monster and am now driving a lowly 1600cc normally aspirated econobox ?
A telling thing to note is that we get more TV coverage running our little 1600cc front wheel drive car in the UK and DNF'ing than we get coming 3rd or 4th overall at a US event... the point is, that definition of a healthy series.
-Pat
Why do you think I've parked my Open class monster and am now driving a lowly 1600cc normally aspirated econobox ?
A telling thing to note is that we get more TV coverage running our little 1600cc front wheel drive car in the UK and DNF'ing than we get coming 3rd or 4th overall at a US event... the point is, that definition of a healthy series.
-Pat
Yep, I really like racing in Canada. Haven't had an SCCA license in 4 years. My problem is that it seems that Canadian companies don't want to sponsor an American and American companies don't want you to race in Canada.
One thing to keep in mind regarding this "top Spec" discussion:
Yes, top Spec cars are ridiculously expensive (N and A). However, if you give up the dream of winning overall or winning a title in your class and it simply becomes "how fast can I go down this dirt road" it's easier to get max speed out of the car by running in Open. Not sure what Gp N cars make for power but let's say 240-260hp. By adding 40mm restrictor, different ECU program, and camshafts, I will now have an honest 360-380 hp. Switching my car to Open will cost around $5,000 for what we are doing. That's less than a dogbox.
Will I will overall, No. Will I win my class, No. But the car will be faster. Maybe I can't drive it any faster but that's okay. That's why Open is appealing. Big power and the ability to do what ever you want.
Brian
One thing to keep in mind regarding this "top Spec" discussion:
Yes, top Spec cars are ridiculously expensive (N and A). However, if you give up the dream of winning overall or winning a title in your class and it simply becomes "how fast can I go down this dirt road" it's easier to get max speed out of the car by running in Open. Not sure what Gp N cars make for power but let's say 240-260hp. By adding 40mm restrictor, different ECU program, and camshafts, I will now have an honest 360-380 hp. Switching my car to Open will cost around $5,000 for what we are doing. That's less than a dogbox.
Will I will overall, No. Will I win my class, No. But the car will be faster. Maybe I can't drive it any faster but that's okay. That's why Open is appealing. Big power and the ability to do what ever you want.
Brian
>Yep, I really like racing in Canada. Haven't had an SCCA
>license in 4 years. My problem is that it seems that
>Canadian companies don't want to sponsor an American and
>American companies don't want you to race in Canada.
>
Emigrate. Remember it's "Cheronno", not "ToronTo"
Robin
>license in 4 years. My problem is that it seems that
>Canadian companies don't want to sponsor an American and
>American companies don't want you to race in Canada.
>
Emigrate. Remember it's "Cheronno", not "ToronTo"
Robin
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
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