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So now they're going to cancel road racing, too, right?
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CP
Desert Storm Rally
8V MkII GTI #399
[url]www.usrallynews.com[/url]
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CP
Desert Storm Rally
8V MkII GTI #399
[url]www.usrallynews.com[/url]
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This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
There is a slight difference in this poor guy crashing and dying and our community's recent tragedy and the shameful and stupid debacle which followed and is ongoing with no news from the PAID staff at whereever the PRDood is hiding.
This guy killed himself, his pain is over. 68 years old, long life. RIP.
It would be better COMPARISON, not better event for those poor readers, to review what SCCA did when there was a spectator fatality.
It is obvious that the SCCA is a corrupt and rotten organization essential run by "buddies" who's main qualification is either connections, or knowing nothing (re: hiring der Spitzner way back when he had zero, zip nada niente noll idea what a rally was, and recently seeing a note about the new PR or whatever they call him "being taken to his first ever rally". Can't find somebody WITH specific experience in the sport to work as a PR guy? Or better to get a clean slate who knows nothing of upper managements blunders and lies?
To the rally community:
It is obvious that we are not welcome at SCCA, and aside from some few people with lifetime of imagined prestige from playing at SCCA car racing, nobody I knows gives a rats ass what names is above the number stickers (which curiously in the rest of the whole f***ing world is always sold to the event sponsor, er you know, er promotion, Spitzners original job description, selling the space as "TOP BILLING"*)
Let's leave and form a nationwide Rally only organization modeled on the Canadian example and liase closely with our neighbors both north and south.
What's the point in trying to keep together this broken marriage with SCCA?
It's corrupt, we've been repeatedly screwed with and lied to or told only fragments of the truth in carefully couched terms, and the paid staff is incompetent.
*I bring up this anomoly because it is one of the most obvious ways which the utter and complete incompetence of the PAID staff, and by paid we expect competence, not reports of them flying around schmoozing at WRC rounds, or driving to endanger at events to get to a high rollers flipped car to supervise the placing of tarps to cover up the damage (that in itself illustrates the PRDood priorities, driving like Zimmer who PRD excluded a few months earlier. Should have been fire and charged for the airline tickets and car rental).
In the rest of the world the space at the TOP is always sold as a valuable space to the event sponsor, not the central sanctioning body.
That is hardly of interest to anybody. A little sticker and note in program suffices.
For years, the paid promo dude has fail utterly and miserably to find series sponsors. The TV programs are paid as part of Subarus world wide marketing campaign which they have been persuing for years all over the world, PRdood can hardly take credit for something they were doing elsewhere anyway.
So what's the facit?
Time to start anew.
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
There is a slight difference in this poor guy crashing and dying and our community's recent tragedy and the shameful and stupid debacle which followed and is ongoing with no news from the PAID staff at whereever the PRDood is hiding.
This guy killed himself, his pain is over. 68 years old, long life. RIP.
It would be better COMPARISON, not better event for those poor readers, to review what SCCA did when there was a spectator fatality.
It is obvious that the SCCA is a corrupt and rotten organization essential run by "buddies" who's main qualification is either connections, or knowing nothing (re: hiring der Spitzner way back when he had zero, zip nada niente noll idea what a rally was, and recently seeing a note about the new PR or whatever they call him "being taken to his first ever rally". Can't find somebody WITH specific experience in the sport to work as a PR guy? Or better to get a clean slate who knows nothing of upper managements blunders and lies?
To the rally community:
It is obvious that we are not welcome at SCCA, and aside from some few people with lifetime of imagined prestige from playing at SCCA car racing, nobody I knows gives a rats ass what names is above the number stickers (which curiously in the rest of the whole f***ing world is always sold to the event sponsor, er you know, er promotion, Spitzners original job description, selling the space as "TOP BILLING"*)
Let's leave and form a nationwide Rally only organization modeled on the Canadian example and liase closely with our neighbors both north and south.
What's the point in trying to keep together this broken marriage with SCCA?
It's corrupt, we've been repeatedly screwed with and lied to or told only fragments of the truth in carefully couched terms, and the paid staff is incompetent.
*I bring up this anomoly because it is one of the most obvious ways which the utter and complete incompetence of the PAID staff, and by paid we expect competence, not reports of them flying around schmoozing at WRC rounds, or driving to endanger at events to get to a high rollers flipped car to supervise the placing of tarps to cover up the damage (that in itself illustrates the PRDood priorities, driving like Zimmer who PRD excluded a few months earlier. Should have been fire and charged for the airline tickets and car rental).
In the rest of the world the space at the TOP is always sold as a valuable space to the event sponsor, not the central sanctioning body.
That is hardly of interest to anybody. A little sticker and note in program suffices.
For years, the paid promo dude has fail utterly and miserably to find series sponsors. The TV programs are paid as part of Subarus world wide marketing campaign which they have been persuing for years all over the world, PRdood can hardly take credit for something they were doing elsewhere anyway.
So what's the facit?
Time to start anew.
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
Joined
·
100 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
Amen to that John.
But, do you think the fact that SCCA's "PAID" sales/PR/Marketing force not knowing what they are selling has anything to do with the championships not having a title sponsor? Nahhh, couldn't be. They do such a good job, or so they think. SCCA is a joke.
Jose
Amen to that John.
But, do you think the fact that SCCA's "PAID" sales/PR/Marketing force not knowing what they are selling has anything to do with the championships not having a title sponsor? Nahhh, couldn't be. They do such a good job, or so they think. SCCA is a joke.
Jose
If you don't like how SCCA is running "your" sport, you have 2 choices: Form another organization leaving SCCA and its built up infrastructure behind or reform SCCA to work better. Of course, there is another option and that is to fly off to Canada or Europe when you want to rally.
Richard Miller
Richard Miller
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
John.......BREATHE
Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year. With any amount of cerebral activity in the home office, it will NOT be renewed.
Now if they prove themselves stupid enough to re-up him....I'm outta there.
Maybe the NATCC was a 'sinking ship' because he was involved. 'Having the chops to see it through' is hardly an accolade. He should have gone down with his ship and stayed underwater.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
John.......BREATHE
Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year. With any amount of cerebral activity in the home office, it will NOT be renewed.
Now if they prove themselves stupid enough to re-up him....I'm outta there.
Maybe the NATCC was a 'sinking ship' because he was involved. 'Having the chops to see it through' is hardly an accolade. He should have gone down with his ship and stayed underwater.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
Joined
·
3,391 Posts
RE: Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year
>
>Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year. With
>any amount of cerebral activity in the home office, it will
>NOT be renewed.
>
I didn't know that. Does everyone else know that? }>
>
>Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year. With
>any amount of cerebral activity in the home office, it will
>NOT be renewed.
>
I didn't know that. Does everyone else know that? }>
RE: Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year
The info was passed on at the NWR meeting last thursday from a reliable source. If they choose to reveal themselves, that's fine with me. I won't do it for them though.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
The info was passed on at the NWR meeting last thursday from a reliable source. If they choose to reveal themselves, that's fine with me. I won't do it for them though.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
Joined
·
1,401 Posts
People
>John.......BREATHE
>
>Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year.
Over the years I have
- been willing to try new ideas in the rally world
- been appreciative of some of the improvements in our sport
- been frustrated with capricious, arbitrary rules changes
- both agreed with and strongly disagreed with various actions of the PRB and the PRD
- Both supported and lost confidence in our leadership
However, in all my disagreements I refuse to launch personal attacks against anyone in a position of authority.
Personal attacks, including name calling, demean the writer far more than the target and tend to invalidate any arguments put forth.
We need to adjust our rally program so that it's safe, it's fun, and it's as fair as possible for competitors, workers, spectators, and yes, the manufacturers too. This adjustment may even involve leadership changes. (We've already seen such changes at the PRB and national office level.)
If we wish our ideas to be considered, our voiced to be heard, our dissention to be given due deliberation, we must present outselves with reason, logic, and facts. Casting insults into the mix is the quickest way to devalue our voices, our ideas, our dissention--in short, it's the quickest way to lose any argument regardless of its merits.
We have a wonderful forum here thanks to the hard work of the SpecialStage staff. Let's try to use it for a positive exchange of ideas instead of a childish playpen. Maybe then we'll all be able to have a bigger sandbox to play in.
>John.......BREATHE
>
>Bonehead's contract expires at the end of this year.
Over the years I have
- been willing to try new ideas in the rally world
- been appreciative of some of the improvements in our sport
- been frustrated with capricious, arbitrary rules changes
- both agreed with and strongly disagreed with various actions of the PRB and the PRD
- Both supported and lost confidence in our leadership
However, in all my disagreements I refuse to launch personal attacks against anyone in a position of authority.
Personal attacks, including name calling, demean the writer far more than the target and tend to invalidate any arguments put forth.
We need to adjust our rally program so that it's safe, it's fun, and it's as fair as possible for competitors, workers, spectators, and yes, the manufacturers too. This adjustment may even involve leadership changes. (We've already seen such changes at the PRB and national office level.)
If we wish our ideas to be considered, our voiced to be heard, our dissention to be given due deliberation, we must present outselves with reason, logic, and facts. Casting insults into the mix is the quickest way to devalue our voices, our ideas, our dissention--in short, it's the quickest way to lose any argument regardless of its merits.
We have a wonderful forum here thanks to the hard work of the SpecialStage staff. Let's try to use it for a positive exchange of ideas instead of a childish playpen. Maybe then we'll all be able to have a bigger sandbox to play in.
RE: People
Which is why I write 'off the cuff' here and clearly and concisely in 'official' communication.
If I was entirely polite here, it would be hard to get my point across about the level of frustration. Believe me, I can do a lot worse than 'bonehead' without a whole lot of time to work on it. I was being nice.
3 years of going backwards is not going to be tolerated in too many positions where someone is getting paid. Someone seems to have managed to find the exception to that and its time to call them out.
Those of us who have lost the most with the latest goings-on are the same group that have the most to gain from a change. I think it is long overdue.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
Which is why I write 'off the cuff' here and clearly and concisely in 'official' communication.
If I was entirely polite here, it would be hard to get my point across about the level of frustration. Believe me, I can do a lot worse than 'bonehead' without a whole lot of time to work on it. I was being nice.
3 years of going backwards is not going to be tolerated in too many positions where someone is getting paid. Someone seems to have managed to find the exception to that and its time to call them out.
Those of us who have lost the most with the latest goings-on are the same group that have the most to gain from a change. I think it is long overdue.
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - OPEN
97 Escort Cosworth - WIDE OPEN
Joined
·
6,117 Posts
RE: People
I have to agree with Matt.
The tone here is percieved by many as conversational, and even if one thinks the tone SHOULD be a bit more formal, then I would suggest that dialog goes two ways, and responses eritten in dismay, bewilderment, anger, and disgust are understandable or justified _responses_ to the words, often lies, often carefully couched half truths, often comtemptous evasions and silence from the paid staff, particularly the PRDood Kurt Spitzner whose arrogant loud boasting when hired, set the stage for, in those more blue eyed than me anyway, hightened expectation of performance and acheivement, not the BULLSHIT which has characterized the ACTIONS, which are comments in their own right.
What tone would be appropriate with an appearantly pathological prevaricator, and opportunist who has shown conclusively that he doesn't care for the opinions or desires of anybody other that a small coterie of the hyper rich and the desires of the employees of Mitsubishi and Subarus promotional departments?
I think we have all shown far too much patience and politeness.
By the way.
NO 34mm Restrictor!
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
I have to agree with Matt.
The tone here is percieved by many as conversational, and even if one thinks the tone SHOULD be a bit more formal, then I would suggest that dialog goes two ways, and responses eritten in dismay, bewilderment, anger, and disgust are understandable or justified _responses_ to the words, often lies, often carefully couched half truths, often comtemptous evasions and silence from the paid staff, particularly the PRDood Kurt Spitzner whose arrogant loud boasting when hired, set the stage for, in those more blue eyed than me anyway, hightened expectation of performance and acheivement, not the BULLSHIT which has characterized the ACTIONS, which are comments in their own right.
What tone would be appropriate with an appearantly pathological prevaricator, and opportunist who has shown conclusively that he doesn't care for the opinions or desires of anybody other that a small coterie of the hyper rich and the desires of the employees of Mitsubishi and Subarus promotional departments?
I think we have all shown far too much patience and politeness.
By the way.
NO 34mm Restrictor!
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
Joined
·
3,391 Posts
RE: People
>Which is why I write 'off the cuff' here and clearly and
>concisely in 'official' communication.
>
Agree. While I don't write or voice my position 'officially' to the persons in charge very often, I must say when I do it's done professionally and without any name calling, etc. Here, it's a somewhat different story (even though I'm sure some of the persons in charge are 'listening in'.
>Which is why I write 'off the cuff' here and clearly and
>concisely in 'official' communication.
>
Agree. While I don't write or voice my position 'officially' to the persons in charge very often, I must say when I do it's done professionally and without any name calling, etc. Here, it's a somewhat different story (even though I'm sure some of the persons in charge are 'listening in'.
Joined
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6,117 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
Joe, I read the note and saw the age and guesses that was probably the case.
That is why I phrased it that this is now a test of SCCAs integrity.
SCCA Roadracing seems to be filled with older, very often seemingly very poor shape guys, and this sort of thing should be expected, the matter is a ticking time bomb and it's just pure luck this guys ticker didn't shut down right when the car was aimed at the crowded pits and mow down a big pile of people.
SCCA knows this.
It seems most of the people in governance of SCCA fit the same physical profile which really reflects the greying and increasing heft of the society in general.
If this is even partially accurate, then the question posed,
WILL SCCA NOW SHUT DOWN CLUB RACING?
is extremely pertinent.
This is in no way slighting or criticizing Carl Merril, but I was not surprised in the least when I heard he had had a heart attack.
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
Joe, I read the note and saw the age and guesses that was probably the case.
That is why I phrased it that this is now a test of SCCAs integrity.
SCCA Roadracing seems to be filled with older, very often seemingly very poor shape guys, and this sort of thing should be expected, the matter is a ticking time bomb and it's just pure luck this guys ticker didn't shut down right when the car was aimed at the crowded pits and mow down a big pile of people.
SCCA knows this.
It seems most of the people in governance of SCCA fit the same physical profile which really reflects the greying and increasing heft of the society in general.
If this is even partially accurate, then the question posed,
WILL SCCA NOW SHUT DOWN CLUB RACING?
is extremely pertinent.
This is in no way slighting or criticizing Carl Merril, but I was not surprised in the least when I heard he had had a heart attack.
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
Joined
·
699 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
John check the requirements for a Club Racing License - over 40 you need an EKG. They also tightend the requirements for the physical a few years back. The gent who died would have been required to get an annual physical.SCCA can't make people jog and lay-off Mcburger-taco King.
Tom Grossmann
John check the requirements for a Club Racing License - over 40 you need an EKG. They also tightend the requirements for the physical a few years back. The gent who died would have been required to get an annual physical.SCCA can't make people jog and lay-off Mcburger-taco King.
Tom Grossmann
Joined
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913 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
I was still relatively new to rally when Carl Merrill left us, but I still remember that SCCA did not shut down any rally events. If SCCA is to stay consistent (bear with me here, I can hear you all chuckling), they wouldn't shut down Club Racing. If the driver had gone off into the pits, or into the spectators, then I would expect SCCA to do something about it similar to what they did to ClubRally.
But we're talking apples and oranges, folks; this current driver died while competing, SCCA doesn't shut down Club Racing. Carl died while competing, SCCA didn't shut down rally. It's at least consistent, if nothing else. I wouldn't expect them to shut down Club Racing in this instance. It would be different if non-competitors were involved.
This is still a horrible accident, and I'm sure the Club Racing folks are mourning just like we did for Carl.
Just my observations...
KT
I was still relatively new to rally when Carl Merrill left us, but I still remember that SCCA did not shut down any rally events. If SCCA is to stay consistent (bear with me here, I can hear you all chuckling), they wouldn't shut down Club Racing. If the driver had gone off into the pits, or into the spectators, then I would expect SCCA to do something about it similar to what they did to ClubRally.
But we're talking apples and oranges, folks; this current driver died while competing, SCCA doesn't shut down Club Racing. Carl died while competing, SCCA didn't shut down rally. It's at least consistent, if nothing else. I wouldn't expect them to shut down Club Racing in this instance. It would be different if non-competitors were involved.
This is still a horrible accident, and I'm sure the Club Racing folks are mourning just like we did for Carl.
Just my observations...
KT
Joined
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1,277 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
> A medical condition is not being ruled out as the cause of the accident.
I hope abduction by aliens has also not been ruled out.
Are there any other things they haven't ruled out?
And what have they ruled out?
> A medical condition is not being ruled out as the cause of the accident.
I hope abduction by aliens has also not been ruled out.
Are there any other things they haven't ruled out?
And what have they ruled out?
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
>> A medical condition is not being ruled out as the cause of the accident.
>
>I hope abduction by aliens has also not been ruled out.
>
>Are there any other things they haven't ruled out?
>
>And what have they ruled out?
You would need to ask the coroner's office as that is the "they" in question. Confirmation of a medical condition requires an autopsy. While the funeral is today, if I remember correctly, the results of the autopsy may not be announced for some time. It is the evil SCCA keeping that from being made public.
Richard Miller
PS: Because of incidents like this and like Carl Merrill, it is a little difficult for me to renew my license every year. I am over 50 and have mild hypertension. Takes a full medical exam that I have to pay for since there is no medical condition to warrent the exam. Just like having a pilots license from the FAA.
>> A medical condition is not being ruled out as the cause of the accident.
>
>I hope abduction by aliens has also not been ruled out.
>
>Are there any other things they haven't ruled out?
>
>And what have they ruled out?
You would need to ask the coroner's office as that is the "they" in question. Confirmation of a medical condition requires an autopsy. While the funeral is today, if I remember correctly, the results of the autopsy may not be announced for some time. It is the evil SCCA keeping that from being made public.
Richard Miller
PS: Because of incidents like this and like Carl Merrill, it is a little difficult for me to renew my license every year. I am over 50 and have mild hypertension. Takes a full medical exam that I have to pay for since there is no medical condition to warrent the exam. Just like having a pilots license from the FAA.
Joined
·
913 Posts
RE: This is a test now of SCCA integrity. Don't hold your breath
>You would need to ask the coroner's office as that is the "they" in >question. Confirmation of a medical condition requires an autopsy. >While the funeral is today, if I remember correctly, the results of >the autopsy may not be announced for some time. It is the evil SCCA >keeping that from being made public.
Richard, shame on you. It's not the evil SCCA keeping that from being made public. It's the evil SCCA making sure the family knows first and that the evil SCCA has permission from the family to post this news on their website.
Sometimes you confuse me. First the evil people are the coroners, who, by the way, don't work the way they do on TV shows. It takes more time than this to be thorough. Then the evil people are the SCCA, for not telling us all the gory details (and I do mean gory). Seems to me that the evil people are folks such as yourself in this instance. I know you're not always this way, and I hope that you were being sarcastic.
Please tell me you were being sarcastic!
>You would need to ask the coroner's office as that is the "they" in >question. Confirmation of a medical condition requires an autopsy. >While the funeral is today, if I remember correctly, the results of >the autopsy may not be announced for some time. It is the evil SCCA >keeping that from being made public.
Richard, shame on you. It's not the evil SCCA keeping that from being made public. It's the evil SCCA making sure the family knows first and that the evil SCCA has permission from the family to post this news on their website.
Sometimes you confuse me. First the evil people are the coroners, who, by the way, don't work the way they do on TV shows. It takes more time than this to be thorough. Then the evil people are the SCCA, for not telling us all the gory details (and I do mean gory). Seems to me that the evil people are folks such as yourself in this instance. I know you're not always this way, and I hope that you were being sarcastic.
Please tell me you were being sarcastic!
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