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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just finished watching Patrick Richard kicking butt (until he rolled on the last stage) in the spec Peugot 206 class at the Scottish Rally. It was on Speed on the Motorsport Mundial program. It looked like an absolute blast. Do you suppose DC will extend their contingency money like they are putting up for LSR into next year? If so, you could see a bunch of new SRT 4's come into the Grp 5 picture, especially if they would sell rally parts in their MOPAR catalogue. Ah, for the old days when one could earn $2500 for a class win from Mistsu.

Roger
 

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Roger,
there'll be a Spec Class in 2003. It's called "GrN" and cars will be legal Mitsu EVOs.....All others can stay home.
- Now, go and put that "old" $ 2500 down and order one
 

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>Roger,
>there'll be a Spec Class in 2003. It's called "GrN" and cars
>will be legal Mitsu EVOs.....All others can stay home.
>- Now, go and put that "old" $ 2500 down and order one

This years spec. class is GpN WRX, we've found it more profitable for the manufacturers to change car type each year.

That was good to view, sorry Pat went out-maybe he can fill us in on what happend sometime.
 

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- Yes, Pat did a great job, got great press and was shown more in the US TV than many SCCA National winners...
- In Europe it's OK to crash & roll if you're finghting for top 3 positions
- Way to go, Pat!
PS. I know Harri Ramanen, he's pretty quick, and Pat was able to match his speed - not bad
 

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ahh fudge I missed it !!!!

oh well

on spec class, one thing is clear

coverage == a future

no coverage == no future

hey just FYI we were also leading the last gravel event as well until we had a serious alignment (re aligment ?) and ended up coming 5th 8 secs out of 3rd (Ramanen). I was happy given the situation with the handling but unhappy since yet again I threw away another win.

P.S. the peugeot spec series, it is possible to do it for free if you win or almost win every time. The prize package is something like 2500 pounds for first place. 10th place still gets 250 pounds.It is highly promoted, has its own tv.

I have serious doubts about anything like this working in the current stucture of US rallying. I think it would certainly be possible in Canada (no this is not a tit for tat or anything, just based on what excites people).

Group N and things are VERY different from a spec class. In the spec class, money doesn't bring you more speed, just a bigger service rig. The car is EXTREEMELY tightly controlled, everything down to the seats and the belts and even the kill switch are part of the kit. The only 'free' item is the battery, odo and where you put your water bottles. Cars are weighed at every event (before, during and sometimes after). Top 5 are automatically impounded at end of each event, etc. etc. winner takes all.

Oh, and what I said about coverage... autosport (little) motorsport news (large) papers, tv, radio, magazines, peugeot press, competitor press, etc. the spec series is run fairly professionally, several full time staff alone. somebody must think it is worth it.

you will be happy to know I picked it from special stage (see world forum archives maybe in December or Jan)
 

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Well, on that subject, it almost came to life this weekend in Quebec.

Eric T. was proposing a migration of the Quebec Cup to become a 2wd only cup starting next year and a Production 2wd cup in 2005.

This proposition was voted sunday night in Quebec and yesterday in Montreal. the vote was a close 32 in favor and 31 not in favor. With this little margin, the proposition was rejected and the Quebec Cup will stay the same...

It would have been a good way to have something like a spec series but with different brand (limited to 2 liters NA 2wd cars) that would have kept the budget to something that more people could afford and put the accent on talent instead of no holds barred machines ($$$).

Hopefully, the proposition wont just be thrown away and can be used again in the future...
 

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It would be great to see something like a Ford Focus SVT Cup. Get Ford into US rallying without going overboard trying to run the full works Focus.
 

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It is a proven 'formula' done all over the world. From the peugeot cup, the primary reasons people run it are :

1) the prize drive at the end of the season, works s1600 drive, means that if you spend some $$ in the first year (doing the series), you might never need to again. Even if you dont win you will get a lot of exposure / interest for other drives.
2) cost effective rally fun, with significant prize money and significant exposure for potential sponsors, which makes it possible to do it fully sponsored (several people are).
3) the cars dont suck (slow, but still fun)
3) because of (1) and (2) and (3) the calibre of drivers is not crap, so you get to improve yourself, and/or compare yourself against whomever is going to get the works drive, and learna about intense competition (i.e. stages always within 3 secs)
4) even if you didn't care about anything and just wanted to rally, the older cup cars are 'hot' commodities (i.e. sell like hotcakes) even though they are still a dime a dozen. If you want to quit and get out of your cup car you know the resale value and you will get it, so it is low risk.

Some one-make series' like some but not all of the required elements, and their relative success shows that it doesn't work. You cant do it halfway, IMHO. Without the dedicated manufacturer staff doing promotions, there isn't so much in it for the manufacturer.
 

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A manufacturer alone will decide of there is a spec class or not in North America. There is no freakin way it can be a competitor managed thing. You need the extensive and far reaching infrastructure of the manufacturer to support it. And the key is "support it" in every sense of the words. Promotion, media coverage, car kits, logistics, parts support etc etc are all fundamentally necessary.

Will the present N/A rally infrastructure cooperate with the manufacturer? I dunno. The only thing the rally community can do is to worship any potential manufacturer support and cooperate in anyway possible. Shutting up about stuff that really doesn't matter would be a good start :)
 

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Does anyone know what Peugeot gets out of this series? I assume they do profit from it, but I`m not sure. I mean.. exactly why they do it? It doesn`t make sense to me that the publicity alone would make it worthwhile.
 

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thats pretty funny. You live in the US, they dont even sell cars here and this whole thread started because someone saw it on tv...

trust me the coverage of this little one make series far outweighs (read as several orders of magnitude) the coverage of the entire scca prorally series.

-pat
 

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Pat,

Being a pessimistic kind of guys, I don't think that a manufacturer would just step up to the plate and create a one-make serie.

At least, in the US, Mazda, Mitsu and Hyundai support 2wd in some way. In Canada, we only have... Subaru.

Having a 2wd Production class may not be the "best" way but it would be a great start I think. 2wd manufacturer could decide to invest in this serie knowing that they could have visibility (with Tv coverage for this serie) that they cannot have right now with AWD cars filling the top spots.

Instead of waiting for the manufacturer to get involved, this would be a way to show them a product that could interest them and "invite" them in this series.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As Doug Shepard stated in the Ojbwe News thread # 28 Chrysler DS is putting up contingency money for Grp 5 Neons. Might not be as good as a full on spec class but at least we've got one manufacturer interested in giving money to anyone that does well in their car, not just throwing their money at the top drivers ala Mits, Sub and Hundai.
This is the kind of thing that the privateer should be exited about. When Mits did this in the early nineties, all the classes started to be "Mits spec classes". Offer the money and we will build them. And it could be done for less dollars than they are spending on the sponsored teams.

Roger
 

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- If Kurt was smart and went after Ford rather than wasting his time on Skoda and Seat (a lunatic idea) he could have had Ford Focus spec class quite easy. 2 year ago Ford was giving away 30-40 Focuses a year to ANYONE who asked. Most went to drag racers, street tuners and show circuits. What a waste and missed opportunity. Only one (?) ended for rally, the odd XR2 by TMR Motorsport (ill prepared car, broke down at RIM).
- Focus has been recalled 7 times 2000 and 4 times in 2001. Ford need polish their image, to show car is tough and reliable. Rally could do onlu good for them.
- When asked at RIM "why not Ford?" Kurt answer was:" I don't see Ford being interested in rallying".
 

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RE: Future of a Spec Class in the US - The SVT Focus

As I interpret the rules, currently available the SVT Focus might make a really good fit for a Spec Production class, looking at the basics.

Adjusted Displacement: 2,624cc (DOHC muliplier 1.2 x VVT multiplier 1.1 x 1988cc base displacement)

Minimum Race Weight: 2,755.36 lbs Production Class based upon adjusted diaplacement

Quoted Curb Weight: 2,750 lbs

I would (by wild-ass guess method) think a Focus roll cage would be up to 100lbs. But this would maybe be offset with the deletion of air bags, carpets, and such. I'd love to get my hands on the engineers to find actual weights of deleted items, and then calculate the additions. Perhaps you could get a Spec car down to 2,800lbs race ready.

Just thinking out loud here...
 

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Rodger,
I couldn't find the post that Doug had made about the contingency. I love the new Neon and would be interested in running one next year if I could find out more. What do you Know?

Jay Streets
CAR51
 

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Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). Beg to differ Topi. I have a 2000 Focus and has only had 5 recalls from the factory. One was a rear hub problem, second was the rear seat bracket, third was a interior trim problem, fourth was a wiper cover problem, can't remember the fifth and one problem I had was a broken clutch pedal spring. No way has any of these problems got to do with the strength of the car. I have covered 72,000 miles in just over 2 years with no squeaks or rattles.
 

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