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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to confirm with the "gods of rally", that lurk in the guts of specialstage, the validity of a conversation I overheard during my spectating at Wild West.

I overheard a rally official/marshall and another spectator/driver conversing about the difficulty of insuring rally events. The official went on to say that after Mark and Roger's accident getting SCCA events insured is very difficult and had there been (God forbid) another "issue" (his quote not mine) with Mark Adkins' crash at OF, SCCA would lose the ability to get rally events insured by "the one remaining company that insures rally events for the SCCA."

So is SCCA rally just one accident away from total demise?
Say it aint so!
 

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I work in the insurance market but have no specific knowledge regarding the SCCA insurance coverage. Negative events do determine coverage/cost and it is entirely possible that an insurance company might want to drop coverage or substantially increase rates when they start to lose money. Insurance companies are in the business to make money and ultimately, just like any other business, if they determine its not a profitable line of coverage, they will stop providing it (ask a doctor in PA). There are always other insurance companies, and not just in the US. Obviously rallying is a worldwide sport and coverage is coming from somewhere. I suspect that the people talking were maybe just speculating but I don't know who they were and where their information was coming from. And when I say there are other insurance companies, that may be true, but who knows if the coverage they want to provide is sufficient or affordable.

It's definately a balancing act trying to determine how safe to try to make cars to keep insurance coverage reasonable, yet keep this safety at a cost the average rallist can afford. This may to be a turning point in US rally and it could go one way or the other. Its pretty hard to predict. Since I didn't sell my car and decided to continue to race I'm hoping things work out for the positive.

Gary
 

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Also, because SCCA is able to lump rally in with Solo and race, our overall loss ratio is less than if we had to stand alone. I suspect that all events are allocated cost based on the overall affect that they have on the loss ratio. But then I am not an insurance person, so I do not know for sure how the costs are allocated. I do know that we are looked at as an overall club and not just as a rally organization.
Richard
 

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I'd heard it had become more difficult for them in light of both the Oregon crash and the spectator fatalities out east.

At some point though it is still a bet for the insurer. In the meantime, it is just going to push event costs up.

Scott, where did you spectate?
 

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Reality Check!

Ever been to an Off-Road Race? There are three or four a month in the Western United States and they all take place on public lands requiring insurance coverage. So long as off-road racing can be insured (racing through their pits and racing across public highways), rally will have no problem. Best In the Desert puts on 12 events a year on BLM land.

The American Rally Sport Group has had no problems acquiring comparable insurance for the Ramada Express International Rally for seven years as a stand alone event.

Ray Hocker
 

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I have no direct experience in this, but I personally believe that Ray is correct.

However, at the meeting with NW competitors and organizers in Jan, Ralph Kosmides, then PRB chairman, said that he thought that ClubRally was one Sawmill-type accident away from being uninsurable.

alan
 
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Richard-

Does this also mean that the rates for the other SCCA programs go up with losses in rally?

I have to wonder if maybe SCCA wasn't looking at the insurance costs of their bread and butter programs and saying "we are going to lose our ass for nothing if rally jacks up rates for everyone else".

Possible?
 

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Folks I am not sure where anyone is getting their information from but I find all of this a little paranoia. Lets all run out and buy a HANS device, window nets, head nets, head protection seats blah blah blah! The sky is falling the sky is falling!
 

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>
>Richard-
>
>Does this also mean that the rates for the other SCCA
>programs go up with losses in rally?
>
>I have to wonder if maybe SCCA wasn't looking at the
>insurance costs of their bread and butter programs and
>saying "we are going to lose our ass for nothing if rally
>jacks up rates for everyone else".
>
>Possible?
Yes, a raise in the rates in rally means the overall insurance cost goes up for all of SCCA. However, that rate increase gets allocated to the group that causes it, i.e. rally. NOW BEFORE you start shouting that this is no different than insuring rally completely seperately consider group insurance. The bigger the group, the lower the individual risk. Not being in insurance and having forgotten most of the statistical analysis I ever took, it would sort of go like this:

Group of 65,000. 15 incidents. Low risk i.e. 1 incident per every 4333.33333 people. That 1/3 of a person sure looks funny though.

Group of 1500. 1 incident. High risk i.e. 1 incident per every 1500 people or almost 3 times as risky.

This means that if you lump high risk with low risk, overall you get lower cost. Even if the overall cost goes up and that entire increase is allocated to the small group causing it, the increase is still less than it might otherwise be.

Any insurance underwriter types feel free to put in real numbers.
Richard
 

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Ladies and Gents,
We could always resort to the Drive-Fast-Trun-Left theory of driving excitement. Liability insurance in a litigious society such as ours will always be fodder for gossip. I do not mean to make light of the situation, but as for me, I will continue to promote the safety and security of our sport as best as I am able.
Sue Martens,
LSR Secretary
LSPR Registrar
LSR Solo 2 Registration/Timing and Scoring
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression with this thread. I'm not intending to spread gossip. I was just intending to have those who know more than I confirm or deny what was overheard.
 

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I am curious - does anyone know if any insurance payouts were made in any of the most recent fatal accidents? Of course fatalities would increase the perception of risk which could affect rates - but is there a real hard cost that has driven up insurance rates? I do not mean to minimize the tragedy at all just asking a dollars and cents question.
 

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Appologies from this end as well. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were spreading gossip and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. It's just that I have seen well intentioned questions get blown all out of proportion as in "one Sawmill accident away" and "the sky is falling". Maybe someone should email national with the question and bring the answer back here. Just a thought.
Again, my appologies.
Sue
 

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Why is rally group insurance (or anything other aspect of motorsport) broken off separately within the SCCA policy? Isn't the idea to spread the risk out over the entire interest group? I'm thinking of the example of health insurance, the tofu-eating lean runner general pays the same rates as the fat smoking TV addict, all other things being equal. As SCCA members, we're all motorsport enthusiasts and we're all free to participate in any SCCA activity.

Did I misunderstand your comment?
 

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Usually companies allocate fixed costs by subsidiary. Those subs that incur less costs are allocated a lower percentage of the overall fixed expenses. Therefore, if rally caused the rates SCCA pays overall to increase then rally would be allocated a greater percentage of the total cost. My guess is solo has a much lower allocation than rally due to the risk.

Gary
 

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Phil, Whatever Gary said. What I think I meant is that if rally were insured as a single entity, an incident might cause the insurance to go up by $5 per car per event. But by grouping rally with Solo et al, the insurance goes up by only $3. (Numbers selected at random)
Richard
 

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>Folks I am not sure where anyone is getting their
>information from but I find all of this a little paranoia.
>Lets all run out and buy a HANS device, window nets, head
>nets, head protection seats blah blah blah! The sky is
>falling the sky is falling!

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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>>Folks I am not sure where anyone is getting their
>>information from but I find all of this a little paranoia.
>>Lets all run out and buy a HANS device, window nets, head
>>nets, head protection seats blah blah blah! The sky is
>>falling the sky is falling!
>
>WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
>

According to the life actuaries, your right! Right now they are betting on when.

>
>
>John Vanlandingham
>Seattle, WA. 98168
>
>Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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This question is one that is not new and we are not breaking any new ground with our ramblings on this internet board.

Insurance IS available from sources other then SCCA. I am puzzled at the resistance to making what is becoming an increasingly obvious needed move away from SCCA's program that is rediculously overpriced.

I go Hornetracing with a $25.00 entry fee. The promoter has insurance. EVERYONE who EVER races signs a waiver.
Why is SCCA's insurance having to pay out so much?
When I had my little boo-boo in the rallycar I told the nice folks in the ER that I had me a Kar-Krash and my insurance paid for it.
I must be missing something big here. It obviously makes a lot of sense to someone.
Why is the amount of dough paid out in claims such a secret with SCCA?
I was never able to get SCCA or anyone connected with SCCA to produce loss numbers for rally or any other branch of racing activities in SCCA.
Costs are keeping me from rallying. Insurance and the entry fees that must go up along with insurance are too big a part of this.
Thoughts?

John Lane
Viva Le Pro Le Ralliat
 
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