[wahl]

Something just occured to me:

At STPR this was the first national since I can't even remember when
(2? 3 years ago maybe?) that every single triangle I saw was
properly placed.

Now I have been to a couple clubs where this may have happened, but I ran so far up front most times I can't really comment.

I was pretty surprised. Even car-top placement for the re-runs
were correct. Congrats to teams for finally working it out.

Ed

 

[RallyKeith]

You know what, you're right! Every car that was stopped had triangles out and they were placed properly. Maybe the sticky Mud even helped keep them up! And in 90% of the cases someone stayed near the car for the entire stage to display the OK sign.

 

[Paul Jaeger]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

>You know what, you're right! Every car that was stopped had
>triangles out and they were placed properly. Maybe the
>sticky Mud even helped keep them up! And in 90% of the
>cases someone stayed near the car for the entire stage to
>display the OK sign.

Not everyone. Unfortunately, the French Canadian Blue Subaru didn't display the OK sign at all. They went off at the right/left 9.5 miles into stage 4. The next car confirmed they were OK because the crew waved them on. Other crews later complained that they slowed because they never saw an OK sign. The triangle placement was good. Maybe the sign was displayed but not visible because of the mud or the location of the sign. Anyway, few cars if anyone saw the sign and several were quite vocal in their complaints.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

Yes, we never complained but had the same concerns. Never saw an OK sign or anyone anywhere around. But don't the rules state that the OK sign need only be out for the next 3 cars? Or am I incorrectly quoting (rule book is out in the rally car and it's too late to go get it ). If in fact that is the rule I think it should be changed. Where's the crew going to go anyway? They should have to hold the sign out until sweep IMHO. I always have.

 

[dejota]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

>sign and several were quite vocal in their complaints.

I believe I was one that was quite vocal. Please understand that I was not trying to be mean to you in any way. We had just come from stage 3 where we were stopped for 30+ seconds trying to figure out what happened and if we should go on or not because none of the workers in the spectator area displayed any triangles or signs.

Please accept my apology because according to the rules (that I just re-read) they only have to have it displayed for the next 3 cars.

I have just always displayed the OK sign or taped it to the back of the car for all cars behind me, so that there is no question....

Emmons (DJ) Hathaway
Co-Driver #903 Escort Cosworth

 

[Paul Jaeger]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

>>sign and several were quite vocal in their complaints.
>
>I believe I was one that was quite vocal. Please understand
>that I was not trying to be mean to you in any way. We had
>just come from stage 3 where we were stopped for 30+ seconds
>trying to figure out what happened and if we should go on or
>not because none of the workers in the spectator area
>displayed any triangles or signs.
>
>Please accept my apology because according to the rules
>(that I just re-read) they only have to have it displayed
>for the next 3 cars.
>
>I have just always displayed the OK sign or taped it to the
>back of the car for all cars behind me, so that there is no
>question....
>
>Emmons (DJ) Hathaway
>Co-Driver #903 Escort Cosworth

No apology necessary. You weren't upsetting me, just registering a complaint about a legitmate problem. I think the OK sign should be continously displayed. I believe some crews have even made their own heavy duty signs so they don't have to try to use the paper signs.

I would have complained too. With the mud, you couldn't tell what car it was. In all the time we were there, no one could tell us the car number. Just a Blue Subaru. As if that narrows it down!



Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

 

[JTree]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

i think it's only supposed to be dispalyed to the three cars because by then it should have been reported to the stage finish and then to the starters of that stage so they can notify the remaining cars that there is a car off at xxxx mileage.

 

[Foghorn]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

If that's the rationale it probably only makes sense if the stage is just a mile or two long or if there is a radio crew at least that often. More distance than that and you could certainly be dealing with much longer time lags in passing information.

Kent Gardam

 

[dejota]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

Exactly why I display it for ALL cars behind me...I think that's what the rule should state....if you have a 20 mile stage and you're out at mile 10, there is a potential for 20 cars to have seen you before the finish can radio to the start....just seems stupid for the OK sign to be displayed to only 3 of the 20....

Emmons (DJ) Hathaway
Co-Driver #903 Escort Cosworth
Driver #812 PGT GTX

 

[Paul Jaeger]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

>i think it's only supposed to be dispalyed to the three cars
>because by then it should have been reported to the stage
>finish and then to the starters of that stage so they can
>notify the remaining cars that there is a car off at xxxx
>mileage.

Takes a lot longer than that. With course notes, codrivers usually don't have the time to note the location, so its two or three cars before we can get any solid information. Then we need to inform the finish radio. Takes him maybe two or three minutes to get net control attention for a nonemergency message. Small delay at the other end to get info to first crew.

Best case scenario for warning starting cars:
The car was off 9.5 miles into 11 mile stage. Two additional cars already pass the incident before first car is at FTC. Even with no delays, in relaying information to starting line, eleven more cars have started the stage. That makes 13 cars without any possibility of a warning of a car off situation. If car is reported in a safe position no warning at all is usually passed to the start.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

 

[rallytaff]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

Just my .02 cents. Nearly all cars carry masking tape in their cars. If both crew members are unhurt and in a safe location, tape the Red Cross on the triangle nearest the car, providing all cars are carrying 3 triangles, or on the car itself in a prominent location. That way all following cars see that everything is OK.

 

[Trevor Donison]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

>Just my .02 cents. Nearly all cars carry masking tape in
>their cars. If both crew members are unhurt and in a safe
>location, tape the Red Cross on the triangle nearest the
>car, providing all cars are carrying 3 triangles, or on the
>car itself in a prominent location. That way all following
>cars see that everything is OK.

You brits and the red cross...

I know you meant the OK sign, and I agree that most teams have Duct tape in their car.

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

I've got a laminated copy velcrowed to the inside of the trunk lid. All I do is open the trunk and vola, OK is seen by all.

 

[Walter Clark]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

That is what Audi does with its supplied triangle on production cars - stored/mounted to the inside of the trunk lid so when open it can be easily seen without having to remember to set it out.

Great idea. The only downside to having the OK inside the trunk lid I can think of is remembering its there and removing it if you happen to have the trunk open but also need help. Fixed signs tend to become invisible after a while and in an emergency it might be overlooked.

 

[jblewis]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

Actually *ALL* cars have duct tape in the car... Its part of the mandated First Aid kit, remember? You all have the correct first aid kit right?

Secondly, as I understood it. The "next three cars" clause was borrowed from the FIA/WRC rules. Amongst so many other things, the WRC has helocopters monitoring the course, so when something goes wrong, the red cross is *almost* (not completely) moot anyway. Again with eyes in the sky, the communications to the start are much more rapid.

I have always thought that the OK should be continuously displayed.

I don't know how many time I've heard over the radio that the car in question seems to move up and down the road a little bit as each car finishes the stage and reports the off-car's location in their own way... Some give "between instruction x and y" (though that is less common now with notes) and other give the milage. With Notes, it shouldn't be hard to get a fairly accurate milage.

When I was a codriver, my biggest problem was *remembering* to tell the finish crew.. I felt like I had so much going on that we'd usually be pulling away when I'd remember, "oh yeah, there was a car off!"

JBLewis

 

[Flyboy]

No Way! Lovell actually put up the triangles correctly?? Must have been his stand-in codriver. I've never once passed his car and seen the triangles properly placed, nor an OK sign. Bravo!

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[Don Kennedy]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

I got your point. The other side is the red cross so all I'd need to do is turn it around. It's staring me in the face as soon as I open the trunk.

 

[dejota]

Actually...no....There was only 1 triangle before his car and the two of them were 100 meters up the road talking to a stopped white neon with no triangles. That's what was happening when we went by anyway.....

Emmons (DJ) Hathaway
Co-Driver #903 Escort Cosworth
Driver #812 PGT GTX

 

[Flyboy]

>Actually...no....There was only 1 triangle before his car

>
>Emmons (DJ) Hathaway
>Co-Driver #903 Escort Cosworth
>Driver #812 PGT GTX

One of these days I'm gonna pick up the cheapest POS $500 beater rally car I can find, enter it, and smash it square into his $150,000 Subie and it won't be my fault cuz he improperly places his triangles. Ok, I won't, but it could happen and it probably will at which point maybe he will have learned his lesson.

Nice guy, great driver, but no respect for his fellow competitors.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845

 

[rallytaff]

RE: Triangles and OK signs...

OK Trevor, I got the wrong page!