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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). What are the odds that Choiniere's days are over as far as rallying goes in the US? He is regularly beaten. Unless Huyndai come up with a new world beater, I say it's over.
 

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Looking at the big Picture:

Each team only has one Top driver/car combo for 2002:

Subaru: Lovell, Hyundai: Higgins, Mitsubishi: Millen

Although you have to worry about who is front of you not behind you, I think Paul can beat Ryhs more often than not, given good equipment. (Paul is the proven driver, with mechanical woes of late. Ryhs is the unproven driver starting to finish regularly).

Concentrating on who to beat from Hyundai's persepetive its Subaru. Its Higgins vs. Lovell.

Lageman has the potential to stir the pot, but then so does Paul. Until you see two drivers from one manufacturer regularly beating Paul, his spot should be safe.

BUT as with all things if a team decides to win the championship it would seem based on this year's results Higgins & Higgins in good equipment would be unstoppable.

So far by gentlemans agreement or not, it is very cool to see at least one American on the manufacturers teams.

Opinions,
Mike
 

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Having had a small conversation the Thumper in the past he seems to like the new competition. He was getting tired of winning all the time without much effort on his part and talking about retiring. I think now you will finally see him forced to drive at his limit.
 

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>Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). What are the odds
>that Choiniere's days are over as far as rallying goes in
>the US? He is regularly beaten. Unless Huyndai come up with
>a new world beater, I say it's over.

Interestingly, I have had similar thoughts, especially after SnoDrift where Frank Sprongl showed everyone his heels in the old Elantra. Replace Paul with Frank and there would be little to choose between Sprongl and Mark Higgins.

Doug Woods
 

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Actually is not Hyundai winning the manufacturers/constructors championship? From a factory point of view this is all that matters, there is not alot to drivers championship.

Paul is very good and I would have to argue the point with Mr. Woods as snow drift is a one off wheather event here. It is also important to note against the overseas competition that Paul is like most other North American teams-that is to say he has to learn "stage notes" which is a definite advantage for the overseas teams as "notes" are much closer to a form of rally they're familure with.
Paul was leading when he retired from Rim! Hyundai is developing a car, where as the other teams have factory based cars with several years of development-that is a major benefit. Think of Buffum-Audi versus Rod Millen-Mazada in the old days, Factory car VS Home built.

Pete keep up the great posts!!!:)
 

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> Paul is very good and I would have to argue the point with
>Mr. Woods as snow drift is a one off wheather event here.

Sean:

What is this Mr. Woods crap? I may be an old fart, but don't treat me like one!

Reference your comment above. There are lots of drivers who are fast on dirt/gravel surfaces - they usually rely on purchased grip and power. However, very few drivers are fast on ice and snow. Conversely, I have never known a fast ice/snow driver who was not equally as fast on gravel. This is a long winded way of saying that Frank Sprongl is without question the best snow/ice driver in North America. These skills also make him as adept on gravel as anyone currently driving in the SCCA Championship. I am not saying he is better than the other top drivers, but just as good, and it would be interesting to see how he would do in a top car.

Doug Woods

PS - the second best snow/ice driver in North America is still Jean Paul Perusse (at 59 year old!).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). I hope Mr Perusse does not take offence,being a transplanted Brit (Welsh ancestry)not knowing his background, but I wish him well if he still competes. Would like to meet him one day, I'm not that far behind as regards age, not ability. Back to the point, Paul has seen better days. Mr O'Sullivan, Mr Richard, Mr Sprongle, Mr Lagemann, to name but a few, have the capability of beating Mr Choiniere on a regular basis. Leading Rim counts for nothing. You have to finish. These guys deserve a full factory ride, just as McRae et al do. Just pay for them to do a full year on the WRC circuit and see what happens. Glad to see that my inputs keeps things interesting. Just when will the factories wake up and give the guys the chance they deserve?
 

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Obviously, you have not checked this weekends results! Paul was right there with them. You are also not taking into consideration that the Tiburon that Paul is driving is completely new car. It has a more modern differential system and different suspension geometry than what he has been used to in the past. Also, as Paul put it to me, the change to pace notes has been like learning a foreign language. Add a co driver that is also learning the language. Now factor in learning that language at speeds that are much higher and more dangerous. Another factor is the old dog new trick, it will take longer for Paul to change than the whippersnappers (not that Paul is old, but he has been at it much longer than them)
If the Higgins bros. can't get a factory WRC ride what makes you think the talented drivers you mentioned deserve one? Unfortunately, no one here is at that level and it would take more than a full year to get there.
Consider yourself flamed:)
 

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Yea, he may have to learn the notes, but after he does (after they all do...) he will be at a huge advantage over those used to only notes. For a while after the switch, Americans/Canadians will be at a disadvantage, but I think that after they learn them, their 'eye for the road' learned from blind rallying will be an enormous help. I think if there were any North Americans that had done both blind rallying and pace notes (and was also good...), we would be kicking European arse. Now, to find the cash...

Then again, Milner did come over here and get 6th place in an unfamiliar car, so maybe I`m wrong. Plus I`ve never driven a rally car before, and all that...
 

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>Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). I hope Mr Perusse
>does not take offence,being a transplanted Brit (Welsh
>ancestry)not knowing his background, but I wish him well if
>he still competes. Would like to meet him one day, (snip)

Perce Neige Maniwaki 2002
Stage B3 'Hibou'
43.57km, Snow & Ice on Gravel

1 J.P. Perusse G2 Golf 29:41
2 P. Richard N4 WRX 29:43
3 B. Scott N4 EVO IV 30:03
&c.


Robin
 

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JP is awesome. But let me just say that I cannot speak for Pat, but I definately questioned that time.........

If you look at every stage from Perce' that one stands WAY out.

Brian
 

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>JP is awesome. But let me just say that I cannot speak for
>Pat, but I definately questioned that time.........
>
>If you look at every stage from Perce' that one stands WAY
>out.
>
>Brian

We slowly slid off that stage with our tractionized ice tires - I think that this stage stands out because it was the payoff stage for those who chose snows (that rhymes) and the penalty stage for those who stayed on ice tires. I'm pretty sure Richard was on snows - and isn't this also the stage where he caught the Besners just before the narrow portion? Maybe J.P.P. was also on snows?

Robin
 

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>Then again, Milner did come over here and get 6th place in
>an unfamiliar car, so maybe I`m wrong. Plus I`ve never
>driven a rally car before, and all that...


Note also that Milner came over here, hopped in a new car, promptly blew the engine... and then ran this race - very, very well - with a basically stock replacement. He's smooth, Milner is.

-Isaac in Cambridge
 

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>> Paul is very good and I would have to argue the point with
>>Mr. Woods as snow drift is a one off wheather event here.
>
>Sean:
>
>What is this Mr. Woods crap? I may be an old fart, but
>don't treat me like one!
>
>Reference your comment above. There are lots of drivers who
>are fast on dirt/gravel surfaces - they usually rely on
>purchased grip and power. However, very few drivers are
>fast on ice and snow. Conversely, I have never known a fast
>ice/snow driver who was not equally as fast on gravel. This
>is a long winded way of saying that Frank Sprongl is without
>question the best snow/ice driver in North America. These
>skills also make him as adept on gravel as anyone currently
>driving in the SCCA Championship. I am not saying he is
>better than the other top drivers, but just as good, and it
>would be interesting to see how he would do in a top car.
>
>Doug Woods
>
>PS - the second best snow/ice driver in North America is
>still Jean Paul Perusse (at 59 year old!).

Your comments are all very acurate as normal, it would be interesting to see more of the top drivers in equal cars.
Mr. Buffum also recognises Franks talent on snow/ice this is shown by the ride in the Elantra which by the way must be a very good car in itself.
2nd thru 4th at MFR covered by 20-23 hundreths! that shows some good old thrashing in my book. The competition should help improve driving talent in North America.
Sorry about the Mr. Woods thing I must have been thinking of Ron Wood!!!!:+
 

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>Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa"). I hope Mr Perusse
>does not take offence,being a transplanted Brit (Welsh
>ancestry)not knowing his background, but I wish him well if
>he still competes. Would like to meet him one day, I'm not
>that far behind as regards age, not ability. Back to the
>point, Paul has seen better days. Mr O'Sullivan, Mr Richard,
>Mr Sprongle, Mr Lagemann, to name but a few, have the
>capability of beating Mr Choiniere on a regular basis.
>Leading Rim counts for nothing. You have to finish. These
>guys deserve a full factory ride, just as McRae et al do.
>Just pay for them to do a full year on the WRC circuit and
>see what happens. Glad to see that my inputs keeps things
>interesting. Just when will the factories wake up and give
>the guys the chance they deserve?

Actually there is a much larger number of drivers that are capable of running up with this group given the car and time to learn it. Point is the drivers listed for the most part have more $$$ to show themselves with, hence the recognition. I can think of a half dozen unknowns that could get the job done, no-doubt what so ever.

Pete: Great topic!
 

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I disagree with all of you. I think that I should be Hyundi's #1 driver.I'm way cooler than either of those two guys, Ha!

Noah
 
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