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· 400 flat to crest
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6,117 Posts
>Cars without catalytic convertors also have the potential to
>start fires. I have been involved with one grass fire
>started by an RX7 with no cat and not running hard. I have
>also seen the grass scorched by the families 1961 Dodge back
>many years ago. But yes it is true that the convertors get
>hotter than without, removing them will not eliminate the
>danger.
>As to your question about liability, I suspect but don't
>know that this would be covered by the event liability
>insurance.
>Richard
Jezzzzuz Richard, minimizing or deflecting this makes me wonder what you're trying to do.

I'll try to explain the problem in clearer terms.

Agreed, all human activity for the last 60,000 years or so has carried with it a risk for fire.

Since the advent of cars, the danger has increased.

Lurch is from Michigan where they have trees.
And I think he likes those trees.

I am from Washington where we have LOTs of trees.
I know I like all those trees.

You are from Texas where there are no trees, just scrub.

While cars present a danger, our masters at SCCA MANDATING something which IN ITS NORMAL MODE OF OPERATION GREATLY INCREASES THAT DANGER, AND ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING ELSE, seems misguided at best:
ESPECIALLY IN CLASSES WHICH ALLOW ENGINE AND FUELING MODIFICATIONS WHICH DRIVE TEMPURATURE UP EVEN HIGHER DUE TO UNBURNED HC (HYDRO CARBONS AKA FUEL) LIGHTING OFF IN THE CAT.

So Lurch is worried about if he burns down substantial parts of OUR woods out here will he get a bill in the mail for something which is er Brilliantly concieved.

It would be a loss if the woods burned down in Washington.

It would be a loss if the woods burned down in Michigan.

I think it would be hard to tell the difference if Texas burned down.

The change in wording from last years wording to this years word is troubling.
Clearly it is a buncha Hooey as we all have gotten the word both officially and Oafish-ally that 1 degree temp was taken as "functioning" and what's the tolerance: 1 degree, + or - 1 degree?


This is politics and mandates of the most smelly sort.
And the obvious consequences of subsequent events should, it would seem, be obvious without saying.

Who makes up this stuff anyway?






John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

· 400 flat to crest
Joined
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6,117 Posts
LAWS SCHMAWS! Changing a thermostat is ILLEGAL!!!

>Shouldn't we all also remember that in order to operate any
>vehicle on a public roadway in the US, the Federal
>government mandates that the entire emissions system be
>intact. This includes the catalytic converter if so equiped
>when originally manufactured. The addition or removal as a
>deviation from the originally designed system is considered
>a federal offense.
shouldn't we leave legislative function to the US EPA, and perhaps remember that the Feds regulate NEW CAR SALES, or should we perhap incorporate the entire CFR42 (Code of federal regualions chapters about motor vehicvles)(as far as i can remember, YOU look it up,)



It seems only reasonable to me that the
>rule book require the competitors to meet the bare minimum
>of the federal statute in this matter.

Why the bare minimum?
Why pick and choose?
ANYTHING which deviate from the way the car originally was run on its EPA "combined urban cycle" certification test is ILLEGAL, and that includes thermostat, the thermo switch for the electric fan, all ducting and all those weird thing tht look like Japanese sex-toys on the intakes, tire overall diameter, all gear ratios.

You open the door to destroying the sport with endless litigation.
Again for the final time for all your folks thrashing around defending a pointlessly dangerous mandate

WHICH NOW IS BEING DEFENDED FOR PURE OBSTINACY AND TO SAVE FACE WHICH IS SO OFTEN THE CASE WITH SCCA

IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PRDOOD, THE PRBOARD, OR SCCA TO DUPLICATE LEGISLATION OR MAKE REFERENCE TO NARROWLY SELECTED PORTIONS OF FEDERAL OR STATE LAWS.
It is er overstepping the madate and they have no authority to enforce, so it is pointless to refer to law.

Imean what are they going to do, call the cops on Higgins?

ENOUGH OF THIS LAW CRAP, _EVERYTHING WE DO IS UNDER EXEMPTION FROM THE NORMAL LAWS.

s.
>
>Is this a great reason? maybe not, but its a real reason.
No it is constantly repeated half truth selectively applied, to quote that man of few words Boris Badanoff "It's Hooooey!"
>
>Brad Odegard

Again I state the main reason now is SCCA trying to save face and not back down after yet one more poorly thought out "Brilliant" idea cooked up without any thought and dropped from above.

And Brad, do you understand that the three way cat works only whren the stociometric ratio of HC/CO/CO2 is within a very very narrow band and a variation on one leads to huge swings in the others?
So allowing any mods to compression, camshafts, fuel quantity, boost rev limit and the things _wont_ work SO THERE IS EITHER NO POINT TO REQUIRING A CAT or maybe there is NO POINT TO ALLOWING _ANY_ MODS??

Do you understand the three way cat fiunction?





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

· 400 flat to crest
Joined
·
6,117 Posts
puuuuuuulleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssseeeeee!

Not full of it just mistaken, DOT regulates NEW CARS SOLD in USA.

John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

· 400 flat to crest
Joined
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6,117 Posts
No brainer....

>instead of fretting over having to have a cat. on your car
>and the likelyhood of it starting a fire vs. not having one
>and the likelyhood of that starting a fire.... why don't you
>ensure that you service crew members are aware of the
>potential danger and have extra extinguishers? a little
>common sense and precaution may save a few stages. with all
>the other problems this year this seems to be a no-brainer.

>
>regards
the danger centers around a) blowing hunks of ceramic crap oout the back of the tail pipe, and
b) when cars stuff themselves into the trees and brush out on stages, they do sometimes do that, that's a no brainer to figure out.

So how is extra fire extinguishers and a aware service crew gonna help when the car goes off 22 miles from service?
Or merely pulls over to the edge to change a flat.

Derek "Uncorked" Bottles already started damp moss smoldering in March
at Doo wopsd in the drizzle.

So...............

It is obvious that this is has become from SCCA side about not backing down, as usual.
Because the reality is established already.






John "My Brain Hurts!" Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
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