FIA licence once again?
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>Where and how to get it? I've done the search but could not
>find "real" info. I need a FIA licence by June. Contact info
>for "ACCUS" ? would be helpfull.
>
>Thanks
>Artex }>
for rallying it's the SCCA that you deal with. Contact Janet in licensing at [email protected] or call her at (800) 770-2055 ext 321.
Dave Kean
[email protected]
>find "real" info. I need a FIA licence by June. Contact info
>for "ACCUS" ? would be helpfull.
>
>Thanks
>Artex }>
for rallying it's the SCCA that you deal with. Contact Janet in licensing at [email protected] or call her at (800) 770-2055 ext 321.
Dave Kean
[email protected]
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1,385 Posts
USAC?
I believe you can also do it through USAC. Technically, I suppose, you could arrange one through any of the ACCUS members (IRL, CART, IMSA, NASCAR, SCCA, USAC) but I'm not sure any but USAC would have a clue as regards the rally side of things. I've thought about switching to an FIA license instead of ProRally, but haven't done it yet. Even with an FIA license you still have to have an SCCA membership to compete.
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
I believe you can also do it through USAC. Technically, I suppose, you could arrange one through any of the ACCUS members (IRL, CART, IMSA, NASCAR, SCCA, USAC) but I'm not sure any but USAC would have a clue as regards the rally side of things. I've thought about switching to an FIA license instead of ProRally, but haven't done it yet. Even with an FIA license you still have to have an SCCA membership to compete.
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
RE: USAC?
2.1.E says that SCCA members have to go through SCCA licensing to get a FIA license (another $150 to the SCCA?)
Pikes Peak says you need a FIA license in the entry regs. However, Mark Utecht asked the question to the PRB (see the PRB minutes in the March Fastrack) and was told no FIA license is required for Pikes Peak.
For non-FIA listed Pro-Rally events you have to have a Pro-Rally license (2.1.A), an FIA license is only valid for FIA listed events, not regular Club and Pro-Rally.
The rules change if you are a FIA listed driver.
Dave
[email protected]
Edit - if you do go through the SCCA the person to speak to for a FIA license is Janet in licensing at [email protected] or call her at (800) 770-2055 ext 321. She was very helpfull when I called a couple of months ago
2.1.E says that SCCA members have to go through SCCA licensing to get a FIA license (another $150 to the SCCA?)
Pikes Peak says you need a FIA license in the entry regs. However, Mark Utecht asked the question to the PRB (see the PRB minutes in the March Fastrack) and was told no FIA license is required for Pikes Peak.
For non-FIA listed Pro-Rally events you have to have a Pro-Rally license (2.1.A), an FIA license is only valid for FIA listed events, not regular Club and Pro-Rally.
The rules change if you are a FIA listed driver.
Dave
[email protected]
Edit - if you do go through the SCCA the person to speak to for a FIA license is Janet in licensing at [email protected] or call her at (800) 770-2055 ext 321. She was very helpfull when I called a couple of months ago
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RE: USAC?
For the SCCA to issue you an FIA license you need to have a Pro Rally license.
For the SCCA to issue you an FIA license you need to have a Pro Rally license.
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150 Posts
If you contact Donna Hocker with American Rally Sport Group by e-mail she should be able to help you out.
Ryan Allison
Ryan Allison
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1,385 Posts
RE: USAC?
Agreed that 2.1.E.1 says you can get an FIA license through the SCCA.
However, 2.1.A.2.c says you can compete with an FIA license in lieu of holding an SCCA ProRally license. You must still be an SCCA member though.
The last sentence in 2.1.E.1 is wishful thinking--again, USAC et al can issue FIA licenses.
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
Agreed that 2.1.E.1 says you can get an FIA license through the SCCA.
However, 2.1.A.2.c says you can compete with an FIA license in lieu of holding an SCCA ProRally license. You must still be an SCCA member though.
The last sentence in 2.1.E.1 is wishful thinking--again, USAC et al can issue FIA licenses.
[hr]
[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
RE: USAC?
You will also need an FIA Entrant's license (another $150). You can get these through the SCCA - your initial license may take a few months to receive. ACCUS is unbelievably slow... The renewals are pretty quick though.
Lastly, you will need to contact ACCUS at least 2 weeks before the event (non US or Canada), authorizing your entry.
You will also need an FIA Entrant's license (another $150). You can get these through the SCCA - your initial license may take a few months to receive. ACCUS is unbelievably slow... The renewals are pretty quick though.
Lastly, you will need to contact ACCUS at least 2 weeks before the event (non US or Canada), authorizing your entry.
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2,144 Posts
RE: USAC?
>Agreed that 2.1.E.1 says you can get an FIA license through
>the SCCA.
>
>However, 2.1.A.2.c says you can compete with an FIA license
>in lieu of holding an SCCA ProRally license. You
>must still be an SCCA member though.
Speaking only as a co-driver, and not as a representative of SCCA.
John, 2.1.A.2.a is clear that any US citizen or resident must hold an SCCA ProRally license to compete in a ProRally. The FIA exemption only holds for non-US, non-Canadian, non-Mexican nationals or residents.
Regardless, the FIA license you will be issued by SCCA, or other FIA affiliated ASN is an FIA International License. This license allows you to compete on an FIA event listed on the FIA International Calendar. If you use it to compete on an event not listed on the International calendar, and FIA finds out (or the organizer is on the ball), your entry will be immediately revoked.
The FIA licenses issued by US ASNs are not for competition in the US or on any North American event not listed on the FIA International calendar.
For this reason, if you plan to compete abroad on non-international events, you will need to rescind or suspend your US SCCA license and file for a similar license in the country of competition.
In my instance, to compete in a Swedish non-International, I suspend my SCCA license, apply for an SBF license (National B) and run on that. In the case I want to run in a Swedish International, I can retain my SCCA license, run on my FIA International license, BUT I still have to pay the FIA International licensing fee due to the Swedish ASN (SBF). So they get you coming and going!
But the short answer is, using a FIA International license to compete in a non-International listed, US event is a violation of your FIA license agreement, and violates the spirit of the SCCA rules.
Speaking only as a co-driver, and not as a representative of SCCA.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
>Agreed that 2.1.E.1 says you can get an FIA license through
>the SCCA.
>
>However, 2.1.A.2.c says you can compete with an FIA license
>in lieu of holding an SCCA ProRally license. You
>must still be an SCCA member though.
Speaking only as a co-driver, and not as a representative of SCCA.
John, 2.1.A.2.a is clear that any US citizen or resident must hold an SCCA ProRally license to compete in a ProRally. The FIA exemption only holds for non-US, non-Canadian, non-Mexican nationals or residents.
Regardless, the FIA license you will be issued by SCCA, or other FIA affiliated ASN is an FIA International License. This license allows you to compete on an FIA event listed on the FIA International Calendar. If you use it to compete on an event not listed on the International calendar, and FIA finds out (or the organizer is on the ball), your entry will be immediately revoked.
The FIA licenses issued by US ASNs are not for competition in the US or on any North American event not listed on the FIA International calendar.
For this reason, if you plan to compete abroad on non-international events, you will need to rescind or suspend your US SCCA license and file for a similar license in the country of competition.
In my instance, to compete in a Swedish non-International, I suspend my SCCA license, apply for an SBF license (National B) and run on that. In the case I want to run in a Swedish International, I can retain my SCCA license, run on my FIA International license, BUT I still have to pay the FIA International licensing fee due to the Swedish ASN (SBF). So they get you coming and going!
But the short answer is, using a FIA International license to compete in a non-International listed, US event is a violation of your FIA license agreement, and violates the spirit of the SCCA rules.
Speaking only as a co-driver, and not as a representative of SCCA.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Joined
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1,385 Posts
RE: USAC?
>John, 2.1.A.2.a is clear that any US citizen or resident
>must hold an SCCA ProRally license to compete in a ProRally.
> The FIA exemption only holds for non-US, non-Canadian,
>non-Mexican nationals or residents.
Actually, Christian, your interpretation is how the SCCA would LIKE the rule to read, but that's not what it says. Sections a and b each indicate specific geography, but section c is geography independent. It doesn't limit any constraints at all. Knowing, however, how the SCCA reinterprets or ignores its own rules as it sees fit regardless of how they're actually written, I'm probably not going to drop my "Pro" Rally license just yet.
As for the FIA license rules and how they operate, I'll accept your word on those as I've not read them.
I'm curious how you go about suspending and re-starting your license. Is a special form involved or just a phone call to the club office?
John
>John, 2.1.A.2.a is clear that any US citizen or resident
>must hold an SCCA ProRally license to compete in a ProRally.
> The FIA exemption only holds for non-US, non-Canadian,
>non-Mexican nationals or residents.
Actually, Christian, your interpretation is how the SCCA would LIKE the rule to read, but that's not what it says. Sections a and b each indicate specific geography, but section c is geography independent. It doesn't limit any constraints at all. Knowing, however, how the SCCA reinterprets or ignores its own rules as it sees fit regardless of how they're actually written, I'm probably not going to drop my "Pro" Rally license just yet.
As for the FIA license rules and how they operate, I'll accept your word on those as I've not read them.
I'm curious how you go about suspending and re-starting your license. Is a special form involved or just a phone call to the club office?
John
To clarify things a little bit
I do have a SCCA "Pro licence", I do have a chance to compete in a FIA sanctioned event held across the pond (Poland, Kormoran Rally)and I'm looking for an easiest way to get a required FIA stuff (licence) without spending a lot of unneccesary moolah.
Artex
I do have a SCCA "Pro licence", I do have a chance to compete in a FIA sanctioned event held across the pond (Poland, Kormoran Rally)and I'm looking for an easiest way to get a required FIA stuff (licence) without spending a lot of unneccesary moolah.
Artex
And here I thought you were trying to do an end-run around the SCCA... oh well competing in Poland is cool too 
I'll check out that event!
Edit: here's the website
http://www.kormoran-rally.pl/
Dang that's one funky language
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
I'll check out that event!
Edit: here's the website
http://www.kormoran-rally.pl/
Dang that's one funky language
Skye Poier
Seattle, WA
Vive le Prole-le-Ralliat!
http://www.rallyrace.net/
Joined
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2,144 Posts
RE: USAC?
Re: suspending your license.
Previously, I would call licensing, but now your best bet is probably to call Sue Robinson.
All you basically need is a letter on SCCA letterhead saying that your US competition license has been suspended for the following date range and that the SCCA requests you be eligible for an equivalent license with the foreign ASN and that you have the SCCA's permission to compete.
It varies a little country to country (at least between Sweden and the UK), so you'd better check with the ASN in the country you plan to compete.
Re: Wording of the rule
I don't think it's ambiguous at all, but I'll forward to the PRB for re-wording for 2004 to resolve any latent ambiguity.
Thanks,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Re: suspending your license.
Previously, I would call licensing, but now your best bet is probably to call Sue Robinson.
All you basically need is a letter on SCCA letterhead saying that your US competition license has been suspended for the following date range and that the SCCA requests you be eligible for an equivalent license with the foreign ASN and that you have the SCCA's permission to compete.
It varies a little country to country (at least between Sweden and the UK), so you'd better check with the ASN in the country you plan to compete.
Re: Wording of the rule
I don't think it's ambiguous at all, but I'll forward to the PRB for re-wording for 2004 to resolve any latent ambiguity.
Thanks,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Joined
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2,144 Posts
The Kormoran Rally is not listed on the FIA International Calendar.
The Polish rallies listed on the Calendar are:
Polski Rally (5/30-6/1/03) (Coeff 20 Euro)
Karkonoski Rally (9/25-9/27/03) (Coeff 5 Euro)
Nikon Rally (7/11-7/12/03) (non-championship event)
Wisla Rally (9/4-9/6/03) (non-championship event)
Therefore, you cannot compete on it using a FIA International License.
To determine what will be required for you to compete, you'll need to contact the Polish ASN.
They will likely require that you show proof of competence (this could be your SCCA license, _or_ a FIA International License), that you get a Polish National License, and that you get a letter or permission from SCCA. The organizers should be able to help you.
Alternately, you can compete on the above events, with a FIA International License. You'll also need an entrant's license if you're competing/entering your own car.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
The Polish rallies listed on the Calendar are:
Polski Rally (5/30-6/1/03) (Coeff 20 Euro)
Karkonoski Rally (9/25-9/27/03) (Coeff 5 Euro)
Nikon Rally (7/11-7/12/03) (non-championship event)
Wisla Rally (9/4-9/6/03) (non-championship event)
Therefore, you cannot compete on it using a FIA International License.
To determine what will be required for you to compete, you'll need to contact the Polish ASN.
They will likely require that you show proof of competence (this could be your SCCA license, _or_ a FIA International License), that you get a Polish National License, and that you get a letter or permission from SCCA. The organizers should be able to help you.
Alternately, you can compete on the above events, with a FIA International License. You'll also need an entrant's license if you're competing/entering your own car.
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Joined
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672 Posts
RE: USAC?
Christian
I agree with John Dillon. The SCCA rule book clearly states that if you are a citizen of the United States you must hold a valid SCCA Rally license, and now I quote, "OR hold a valid FIA License". If this is an error on the SCCA's part, they need to take action to change the rule. I believe, but do not claim to know for fact, that ACCUS membership obligates the SCCA to accept FIA licenses at their events.
You say, " If you use it to compete on an event not listed on the International calendar, and FIA finds out (or the organizer is on the ball), your license will be immediately revoked."
If this is true, isn't it incumbent on the FIA to immediately revoke the licenses of everyone using their FIA license to run SCCA events that are not listed on the FIA calendar? Wouldn't this would lead to the revocation of licenses for quite a few of the top out-of-country teams running Sno Drift since it was not an FIA-liste evnet?
There is only one SCCA rally event listed on the FIA international rally calendar . Based on your interpretation of the FIA rules, no foreign teams may run the SCCA's non-listed events using FIA licenses and the SCCA rule book is completely wrong in stating they may.
This opens up a broader question regarding the SCCA Pro Rally rule book. Rule 2.1 E.2 states "A current FIA license is required for all FIA-listed events." Does this mean that every team running an FIA-listed SCCA event must purchase an FIA license to run these events? Where does Pikes Peak fit into this? Will every team entered be required to hold an FIA license? Is the SCCA Pro Rally department doing due diligence to see that their rules are being followed?
Although you say are not speaking as a representative of the SCCA, as a member of the Pro Rally Board, everyone thinks you are. The Pro Rally board would be better served if you refrained from posting your personal interpretations of the Pro Rally rules and revise the rule book to read clearly on these important issues.
I trust everyone knows you are not in a position to speak for ACCUS, or the FIA. The FIA regulations are all available for down-load on the FIA web site at www.fia.com.
Ray Hocker
Clerk of the Course
Ramada Express International Rally
(FIA International Calendar Listed Event)
Christian
I agree with John Dillon. The SCCA rule book clearly states that if you are a citizen of the United States you must hold a valid SCCA Rally license, and now I quote, "OR hold a valid FIA License". If this is an error on the SCCA's part, they need to take action to change the rule. I believe, but do not claim to know for fact, that ACCUS membership obligates the SCCA to accept FIA licenses at their events.
You say, " If you use it to compete on an event not listed on the International calendar, and FIA finds out (or the organizer is on the ball), your license will be immediately revoked."
If this is true, isn't it incumbent on the FIA to immediately revoke the licenses of everyone using their FIA license to run SCCA events that are not listed on the FIA calendar? Wouldn't this would lead to the revocation of licenses for quite a few of the top out-of-country teams running Sno Drift since it was not an FIA-liste evnet?
There is only one SCCA rally event listed on the FIA international rally calendar . Based on your interpretation of the FIA rules, no foreign teams may run the SCCA's non-listed events using FIA licenses and the SCCA rule book is completely wrong in stating they may.
This opens up a broader question regarding the SCCA Pro Rally rule book. Rule 2.1 E.2 states "A current FIA license is required for all FIA-listed events." Does this mean that every team running an FIA-listed SCCA event must purchase an FIA license to run these events? Where does Pikes Peak fit into this? Will every team entered be required to hold an FIA license? Is the SCCA Pro Rally department doing due diligence to see that their rules are being followed?
Although you say are not speaking as a representative of the SCCA, as a member of the Pro Rally Board, everyone thinks you are. The Pro Rally board would be better served if you refrained from posting your personal interpretations of the Pro Rally rules and revise the rule book to read clearly on these important issues.
I trust everyone knows you are not in a position to speak for ACCUS, or the FIA. The FIA regulations are all available for down-load on the FIA web site at www.fia.com.
Ray Hocker
Clerk of the Course
Ramada Express International Rally
(FIA International Calendar Listed Event)
Joined
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2,144 Posts
RE: USAC?
Ray wrote:
>Although you say are not speaking as a representative of the
>SCCA, as a member of the Pro Rally Board, everyone thinks
>you are. The Pro Rally board would be better served if you
>refrained from posting your personal interpretations of the
>Pro Rally rules and revise the rule book to read clearly on
>these important issues.
Though I have faith that the readers of this discussion are sophisticated enough to discern between my personal opinions and SCCA policy, in the interest of clarity, I'll accept your suggestion and I'll refrain from interpreting the SCCA rules.
That said, I believe I've added substantive value to this thread for anyone who wishes to compete outside of the US. Ultimately, however, it is incumbent on the competitor to ascertain the licensing rules in any country he competes.
>I trust everyone knows you are not in a position to speak
>for ACCUS, or the FIA. The FIA regulations are all available
>for down-load on the FIA web site at www.fia.com.
That is certainly true. It is incumbent on any competitor to discern what the appropriate course of action is with respect to licensing. Any questions with respect to SCCA licensing can be directed to the PRB. For definitive answers on FIA licensing, your best bet is to contact the ASN in whatever country you're planning on competing.
Warm regards,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Ray wrote:
>Although you say are not speaking as a representative of the
>SCCA, as a member of the Pro Rally Board, everyone thinks
>you are. The Pro Rally board would be better served if you
>refrained from posting your personal interpretations of the
>Pro Rally rules and revise the rule book to read clearly on
>these important issues.
Though I have faith that the readers of this discussion are sophisticated enough to discern between my personal opinions and SCCA policy, in the interest of clarity, I'll accept your suggestion and I'll refrain from interpreting the SCCA rules.
That said, I believe I've added substantive value to this thread for anyone who wishes to compete outside of the US. Ultimately, however, it is incumbent on the competitor to ascertain the licensing rules in any country he competes.
>I trust everyone knows you are not in a position to speak
>for ACCUS, or the FIA. The FIA regulations are all available
>for down-load on the FIA web site at www.fia.com.
That is certainly true. It is incumbent on any competitor to discern what the appropriate course of action is with respect to licensing. Any questions with respect to SCCA licensing can be directed to the PRB. For definitive answers on FIA licensing, your best bet is to contact the ASN in whatever country you're planning on competing.
Warm regards,
- Christian
Bjorn Christian Edstrom
Co-Driver
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
RE: USAC?
>Though I have faith that the readers of this discussion are
>sophisticated enough to discern between my personal opinions
>and SCCA policy, in the interest of clarity, I'll accept
>your suggestion and I'll refrain from interpreting the SCCA
>rules.
Christian:
I think you should reconsider. In your recent posts, you have been very clear about when you are speaking personnally and when you are speaking officially. I find your input to issues to be very well thought out and you should not shy away from participation just because you received one negative reply.
We need more high profile competitors, organizers and officials participating in this forum, not less.
Doug Woods
>Though I have faith that the readers of this discussion are
>sophisticated enough to discern between my personal opinions
>and SCCA policy, in the interest of clarity, I'll accept
>your suggestion and I'll refrain from interpreting the SCCA
>rules.
Christian:
I think you should reconsider. In your recent posts, you have been very clear about when you are speaking personnally and when you are speaking officially. I find your input to issues to be very well thought out and you should not shy away from participation just because you received one negative reply.
We need more high profile competitors, organizers and officials participating in this forum, not less.
Doug Woods
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
RE: USAC?
I agree. The good of the order is not served when those with valid input choose not to share it because of fear that they will be misunderstood. While it SHOULD go without saying that you are speaking for yourself, not everyone will make that distinction, so just be clear that you are offering a co-driver's opinion (the only opinions that really matter afterall!) and not speaking for the PRB.
Kent Gardam
I agree. The good of the order is not served when those with valid input choose not to share it because of fear that they will be misunderstood. While it SHOULD go without saying that you are speaking for yourself, not everyone will make that distinction, so just be clear that you are offering a co-driver's opinion (the only opinions that really matter afterall!) and not speaking for the PRB.
Kent Gardam
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