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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Valerio Catelani, 37, and Daniela Bertoneri, 34, died during the 47th 'Rally Città di Lucca', when their car, a Peugeot 207 s2000, crashed into a wall near the town of Brancoli and caught on fire. The race is been cancelled.

Condolences to there Families & Friends :(

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The City of Lucca 47 ° Cup canceled due to accident

During the fourth special stage, shortly after four o'clock in the morning, the number 7 car, the Peugeot 207 S2000-Catelani Bertoneri off the road. The pilot and navigator died following the fire developed.

Lucca, July 22, 2012 - The 47th Cup City of Lucca, Valid Rally for National Challenge Rally VI zone (eighth round), organized by the Scuderia Balestrero of Lucca was interrupted last night while he was being the Special Number 4 "Brancoli" following the accident the crew number 7, composed by Valerio Catelani Bertoneri and Daniela, a Peugeot 207 S2000.

The output of the original road crew of Versilia, also partners in life as well as in sports, took place a few miles from the start of Special Stage. The Peugeot 207 S2000 in which the crew was running for the third time he bumped into a wall of protection and then got stuck in the roadway on fire.

The relief was immediate, rigorous respect of the security plan prepared by the Organisation of the Special Brancoli was discontinued immediately upon hearing the seriousness of the incident.
The officials on duty at the place, the large crowd present and the other crews who followed immediately tried to extinguish the flames but the action has proved ineffective and the crew, got stuck inside the cockpit, has died.

At the time of the accident was leading the race, the Italian rally champion Paolo Andreucci, racing with his Peugeot 207 official who participates in the Italian Championship.

The organizers and all the staff who participated in the 47 ° Rally Cup City of Lucca are united in sorrow to the families of the unfortunate conductor.

At 11 am today at the press room of the event located at the headquarters of the Automobil Club of Lucca, has convened a press conference to report on the incident.

click: [url]http://www.balestrero.it/2012/rally-coppa-citta-lucca[/URL]

:(
 

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Is it just that these deaths are being reported more consistently, or has this year really just been a bad one for the sport in general?

Sad news either way. Getting stuck in the cockpit while on fire is something I would not want to have happen to anyone...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i think its just a bad year in general , or as a relative once said to me obviously god needs them in heaven more than here on earth ....altho imho seems heaven has a serious kickass rally team , wonder if they are planning on entering wrc ?? ...and afore u all beat me up its called humor in the face of adversity.
 

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I would have thought a S2000 car had onboard fire suppression. What a freak deal...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
as far as i'm aware they all have fire suppression systems but they did hit a wall/something before the fire which may have caused the suppression system to fail ....

found this video of the scene of the accident and from looking at the car and where it finished up you can see why it may have been difficult if not impossible to extricate them in time :(

[video=youtube;OmLDLDKVrTA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OmLDLDKVrTA[/video]

the video is just to show the situation and in no way as disrespect to there respective families and friends.

again my condolences to there friends and family
 

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as far as i'm aware they all have fire suppression systems but they did hit a wall/something before the fire which may have caused the suppression system to fail ....

found this video of the scene of the accident and from looking at the car and where it finished up you can see why it may have been difficult if not impossible to extricate them in time :(

[video=youtube;OmLDLDKVrTA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OmLDLDKVrTA[/video]

the video is just to show the situation and in no way as disrespect to there respective families and friends.

again my condolences to there friends and family



I dont understand why its disrespectful to offer up information. It seems like when people die all the evidence is hidden and little details are released. I still dont know how marker died... i've spoke with his father but obviously I dont want to ask him.... but for future safety information i'd like to know; how it happened what was the scenario is there any way to prevent it etc.
 

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Hey Steve, I know you are not attempting to disrespect anyone, in situations like this most families and friends dont care to see vehicles, his car just like I am sure this car will be inspected by safety stewards of the particular sanctioning body and detirmane if it could had been prevented and how to make it safer. Things happen that are out of our control and that we can not understand, all we can do is respect and honor them the best we can. There are plenty of wrecked rally cars out there for general public to learn from that people did not die in. :)

RIP Valerio & Daniela
 

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Hey Steve, I know you are not attempting to disrespect anyone, in situations like this most families and friends dont care to see vehicles, his car just like I am sure this car will be inspected by safety stewards of the particular sanctioning body and detirmane if it could had been prevented and how to make it safer. Things happen that are out of our control and that we can not understand, all we can do is respect and honor them the best we can. There are plenty of wrecked rally cars out there for general public to learn from that people did not die in. :)

RIP Valerio & Daniela

Yeah, I understand that; but its frustrating to me because I want to see the difference, or if it was just a freak accident. I guess I always just want to know as much as possible and why instead of being in the dark.
 

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It's such a balancing act. I'm wired in such a way that I want to have the information but others chalk it up to morbid curiosity. Not so at all.

This sport is dangerous. We are required to make a risk/reward judgment in order to participate. I can't see how more information gets in the way of better decision making.

Safety stewards can't make that decision for me. Maybe there's something I want to do to mitigate risk now, not wait a year for them to mull it over.

It's horrible for the friends and family. Nothing will change that. And most would know that if they don't want to see that, the internet isn't the best place for them, right now. But the collective "we" learned a lot from that screenshot. How could they glance of a wall and not be able to get out? Well, they were upside down in a tight, tight ditch. Before "we" saw that we had to assume that our risk of dying in a fire was much higher than we assumed, we hit stuff all the time. But now we see that the circumstance was very unusual, and not as likely to reoccur as we originally had to guess at.
 

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The thought of being stuck in a car is my biggest fear rallying. One modification I will never do is Lexan windows in the doors. I keep a glass breaker within reach when belted in. After our tree impact at Olympus last year neither door would open. the impact was on only one side of the car, and we did not roll.
 

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Your a student of the sport and I've been at this for a couple of decades but I can't remember a death from fire in the sport since Henri Toivonen?
This was one month after Toivonen...
http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/01/sports/driver-dies-in-rally-held-in-west-germany.html

I was talking about fire suits earlier in the year and how rare fire is. Sad year for international rallying with way too many deaths...
Pretty crazy to see such a violent and quick fire. I wouldn't have expected it in an S2000 car.
 

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It will take a while to get the official report. So far they say the drivers suffocated from the fumes. They hit a concrete wall 40-50 CM high and the car immediately caught fire.
A question I have is how many cars have a fire fighting system instead of just a fire extinguisher ? What type of chemical is used for either ?
 

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A question I have is how many cars have a fire fighting system instead of just a fire extinguisher ? What type of chemical is used for either ?
I admit I have very little knowledge of the actual on board fire suppression system that is used in pro racing series but I am a firefighter so I can offer up some information.

Regular hand-carried fire extinguishers use a powder that is known as "dry chemical agent". It works by smothering the fire and preventing oxygen from getting to what's burning, thus putting the fire out. I would expect that most on board systems would use dry chem as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_dry_chemical

If your question is bearing on whether or not it would suffocate a person, the answer is not really. You might cough and hack a little from the fine dust, but it's not going to rob you of oxygen. People that die from "smoke inhalation" or suffocation from fumes/gases at a fire are generally overcome by off-gassing from the things that are burning. In a car, the plastics, foam rubber, oils and fuels, and all that, produces more than enough toxins and particulates to suffocate a person. The darker the smoke is, the more "dirty" it is - the more crap and gunk is in it to get in your lungs and give you problems.

As for the conversation on whether or not video or photos (or even eyewitness accounts) of a crash is disrespectful - some may see it that way, but as many of you have said, the purpose for finding and posting this kind of data is education. A lot of the knowledge I have gained over the many years I've been with fire/rescue comes from seeing what has happened in a crash and what kind of effect it had on the occupants thereafter. Detailed, almost forensic level photos, stories, and sometimes video is "worth its weight in gold" to both us rescuers and you drivers/co-drivers in its educational potential.
 

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I admit I have very little knowledge of the actual on board fire suppression system that is used in pro racing series but I am a firefighter so I can offer up some information.

Regular hand-carried fire extinguishers use a powder that is known as "dry chemical agent". It works by smothering the fire and preventing oxygen from getting to what's burning, thus putting the fire out. I would expect that most on board systems would use dry chem as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_dry_chemical
Actually, current on board systems would contain AFFF (foam), or non-ozone depleting Halon replacements gas such as Dupont FE-36. Although effective, these systems are not "a firetruck in a bottle", there will be fires these systems can not contain. It may have been that in this instance the car fell into a hole in such a way as to trap the doors and all exits (photos above, the car had been rotated for access post fire), a tragic consequence of the uncontrolled environment that is part of the fundamental nature of rally.
 
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