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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read this kid-gloves interview with Kurt Spitzner
http://www.specialstage.com/view.asp?StoryID=302
thinking to myself that the interviewer was trained
by Larry King. No hard questions, no hard news, just
kissy kissy.

Quoting a piece of the article regarding Kurt Spitzner,
"...dragging us kicking and screaming toward the light.."

Perhaps there was a good reason people were kicking and
screaming, and continue to kick and scream.

IT WAS WRONG.
IT CONTINUES TO BE WRONG.

There will be no eulogies from me, just "Good riddance".

The down-side of Spitzner's departure is that most
likely SCCA will think they can continue along this
unfortunate path, because no one stood up and challenged them.

I will be surprised if Spitzner's replacement isn't worse.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Take the forum and tell us all what you want rally to be.

Not everyone has the luxury of living in the past and can't whinge about how things are worse than they were in the "good old days".


If the people that run the SCCA are so feeble minded and clueless, the majority of the complainers who are clearly of vastly superior intellect should be able to easily overthrow them and immediately put on some rallys that leave us Awestruck.


Generalized bitching and moaning gets tiresome after a while- I consider myself an educated person and I'm able to recognize pointless rhetoric.

Is this up for real debate or is it just complaining because it's in vogue and there no real ideas behind the nattering, other than to say "I liked it the way it used to be" ?
 

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Before Kurt and his actions, I frequently got asked if I was a cheerleader, if Tabor Rally Team was my cheerleading team. Serious. People had no idea what it was we did; to get what limited sponsorship we did, required a lot of explaining, digging up of in-car (not the most ideal thing to show) and still photos.

After Kurt and his actions, one only has to say the word Rally and everyone and their dog knows what you are talking about. Cheerleading doesn't even come into it. No lenghthy explanations are required.

You might not like him. Great, not everyone likes you, either. You don't agree with the direction performance rally is going. Instead of whining about it, do something to change it. Apply for the position of Performance Rally Director. Then duck and cover, because no one is going to be happy with whoever steps into that role.

Kurt is actually a pretty nice guy, with a wicked sense of humor; we had a good time hanging out with him in service during the Mt Hood rally. Ask him sometime what his ClubRally number is. }> He did a lot for performance rally, and I for one was surprised to read the interview and learn of his prior knowledge of our obscure sport.

I wish this interview had been done at the outset, and I'm glad that someone is going to do an interview of "the new guy" similar to that one, whenever SCCA appoints someone to fill Kurt's shoes.

KT
 

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Can anyone intelligently explain to us newbies what is so wrong, so we can "rally" behind you? Or in front, or whatever.

I keep reading here that over the last few years(the Sptzner era) that SCCA Prorally has sold out. How? And if that means to catering to Subaru & Mitsu, then why is that bad?

JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com
 

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People get all worked up about things they are passionate about.

We are all passionate about rally. We love it for different reasons. Some love it for it's grassroots appeal. Some love it for playing with the latest high performace goodies. Some love it for the endurance. Some love it for the speed. Some love it because it is a secret. Some love it because the world knows what it is. Some love that the manufacturers are involved. Some wish they weren't. Some people like what Kurt did. Some people don't.

I could go on and on. Nothing you can do about it now. Take what has been given to you and deal with it. If you care enough to try to change it more into the form you prefer, get started. Find some positive way to make that happen. If you like where it is, support it and work to keep it this way.

Complaining here will never help your cause.
 

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I have avoided commenting in these sorts of discussions on SS in the 2 years or so that I have been interested in participating in performance rally. Prior to that I had no idea that performance rally existed in North America. I assumed that the new beetle rally commercial was filmed in Europe. Bottom line without the efforts of Kurt I would not be an SCCA member, NASA member, rally worker, rally competitor. So I would like to thank Kurt for getting rally in North America much needed publicity so that I knew that it was happening and could choose to become involved. No the system isn't perfect but alot more people know about the f**ed up system as a reslt of Kurt's efforts.


And on another note the rally car is turbo-charged because turbo cars are cool.}>
 

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Actually I agree with the post. I do not believe that Mr. Spitzner did the rally community any big favors. I do believe he is credited with some success' that were coming about anyway. I think the recognition of the sport was growing before KS, video games were promoting the sport for example.

I credit KS for the rediculous increase in cost of rally or failing to contain the cost, as I will credit him for the loss of a national sponsor. I feel as head of the rally department these two items were neglected. I also feel the competitors needs were not addressed but were skipper over for a vision which time was premature.

I haven't see any major advantage in the so called manufacturer involvement, "explosion"-what exspense they're helping with may be of benefit to organizers-but have not off set the cost increase to the general competitor. Some of these increased exspenses being due to submission to manufacturers desires, or not knowing how to say NO. This being the view from many competitors.

Has the competition got better? Newer equipment, yes-which may translate to quicker times but the competition is still much the same. What I mean is there is not a large increase in fields that create a real "push" needed by drivers in several classes to win, or as the WRC guy's would say "a good fight".

What does this have to do with KS? That the vision was not well executed/timed, car year rules=cost to compete has risen,(new car required) the level of competition hasn't. Some will twist this around but if one thinks about what I'm saying I think it holds true.
Restrictor rule for example, who benefits? Cost increase.

we have seen more national personel at "PRO" events, which increase cost's.

If you were to ask me-which your not-if the rally community benefited from KS involvement, at this point I would say NO not IMHO. However the future will tell and it may well be a different story.

As you can no doubt tell I'm not a cheer leader. I want to rally and don't want rally to cost an arm and a leg.

Let it be known that I do not know KS, this is in no way an attack on him, everyone that does know him says he is very nice-I have no reason to doubt others opinions. It may very well be that he was ahead of his time!

:+ To each their own!
 

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I don't really care whether or not he stayed or if Steve Johnson stays either. My days with SCCA are long gone. I also agree that Kurt did not do much, if anything for rallying, especially club rallying. The people who really do promote this sport are the likes of you and me, who get out there and actually talk to people, give them information on where they can find out and try to get them to come to the events to work and find out more. Only yesterday, I spoke to a complete stranger, a female, who I saw was driving a Subaru. I got talking and told her about the rally school coming up in Feb. Gave her the SS website, CRS web site and when I got home there was an e-mail from her wanting to know more! She had no idea but had seen rallying on Speed. The power of conversation!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You say she had seen rallying on Speed.

Did you have to explain the sport to her?

Or did she have a concept of it from the TV?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Odds are, yeah, probably WRC.

I have had people tell me they've seen SCCA covereage, though.

The WRC media machine is amazing, and surely responsible for more knowledge of the sport by the casual fan.

Is their a detriment caused by allowing Subaru and Mitsubishi to pay for a US based program that sometimes even features other competitors?
Does KS get credit or blame for the TV program, or neither?


*if* one desires growth- more media resources can only be better, right?

He points her to two websites, and she says she's also seen it on the TV. Did that exist 3-4 years ago?

Again, I'm coming from the angle that we want more people at events, volunteering to help with events, running cars, that sort of thing.

If the sport, by virtue of the particpants attitude's, gives off the feeling that it's exclusive and untenable for Joe Average, as a spectator, volunteer, or competitor, why should they support us running on public roads?
 

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Actually world rally was on ESPN in the mid 80's, and several magazines carried the "national" series with good coverage. I remember seeing several rallies on T.V. in the 70's

What we are really seeing is more people aware of rally due to many sources (most likely due to the ease of information and the shrinking of the world) therefore a person is more apt to acknowledge the sport.
 

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>He points her to two websites, and she says she's also seen
>it on the TV. Did that exist 3-4 years ago?
>
Did the internet exist (barely) 3-4 years ago like it does now? (Okay maybe more like 5-6 years ago). Did the internet which didn't exist 10 years ago help play a part? 6 years ago you could not have had a brief converstion, pointed to several web sites and left the person go learn about it own their own from the web!
 

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>>He points her to two websites, and she says she's also seen
>>it on the TV. Did that exist 3-4 years ago?
>>
>Did the internet exist (barely) 3-4 years ago like it does
>now? (Okay maybe more like 5-6 years ago). Did the internet
>which didn't exist 10 years ago help play a part? 6 years
>ago you could not have had a brief converstion, pointed to
>several web sites and left the person go learn about it own
>their own from the web!

The internet didn't exist 10 years ago? That's about the time Al Gore invented it, right?

It isn't just the internet that has made this possible. Where was television cable 10 years ago? There wasn't the bandwidth on most systems to air an all-cars/motorsports channel like Speed, even if it did exist then. There have also been changes in shipping and retailing that makes it economically feasible to get Autosport, RallyXS, etc. at the Barnes&Noble or Borders in middle-of-nowhere, USA, not to mention other items from markets where rally is bigger than in the US.

Did Kurt help expand the interest in rally? I don't know. Maybe he's the guy who talked Subaru into dumping so much money into US rally. However, he did not achieve the goals of the Vision Guide, but was he even supposed to do that.

Anyway, in my opinion, the trends were already there for increasing interest in the US in rallying.

alan
 

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RE%3A Eulogizing Kurt Spitzner

From post #8 saywhat said
"Actually I agree with the post. I do not believe that Mr. Spitzner did the rally community any big favors. I do believe he is credited with some success' that were coming about anyway. I think the recognition of the sport was growing before KS, video games were promoting the sport for example.
I credit KS for the rediculous increase in cost of rally or failing to contain the cost, as I will credit him for the loss of a national sponsor. I feel as head of the rally department these two items were neglected. I also feel the competitors needs were not addressed but were skipper over for a vision which time was premature.

I haven't see any major advantage in the so called manufacturer involvement, "explosion"-what exspense they're helping with may be of benefit to organizers-but have not off set the cost increase to the general competitor. Some of these increased exspenses being due to submission to manufacturers desires, or not knowing how to say NO. This being the view from many competitors.

Has the competition got better? Newer equipment, yes-which may translate to quicker times but the competition is still much the same. What I mean is there is not a large increase in fields that create a real "push" needed by drivers in several classes to win, or as the WRC guy's would say "a good fight".

What does this have to do with KS? That the vision was not well executed/timed, car year rules=cost to compete has risen,(new car required) the level of competition hasn't. Some will twist this around but if one thinks about what I'm saying I think it holds true.
Restrictor rule for example, who benefits? Cost increase."









According to this argument, anything GOOD that happened while Kurt was the PRD would have happened anyway, and Kurt improperly received credit for it; and anything BAD was a direct result of Kurt and his actions? Is that accurate?

Arguments like this, as well as endless complaining without constructive criticism have always made me tune out the majority of posts on this board.

I read this board every day, and respect the users of it. I can't stand to see people attacked for doing what they believed was right, and what their supervisors thought was right...at least for a few years.
 

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Good & Bad

Edited for space:
>
>
>According to this argument, anything GOOD that happened
>while Kurt was the PRD would have happened anyway, and Kurt
>improperly received credit for it; and anything BAD was a
>direct result of Kurt and his actions? Is that accurate?

The original post has been edited, and inferred an opinion of what was written.
However let's face it rally was growing. The Subaru WRX SCCA membership deal is a phantom balloon as far as growth of rally membership-looks good on paper but not real. On the other hand I think KS did some good promotion but not all the growth is from his work.

"and anything BAD was a direct result of Kurt and his actions?"

Those are not my words!!
>
>Arguments like this, as well as endless complaining without
>constructive criticism have always made me tune out the
>majority of posts on this board.

Such as this post? Meaning the complaint about "complaints".


>I read this board every day, and respect the users of it. I
>can't stand to see people attacked for doing what they
>believed was right, and what their supervisors thought was
>right...at least for a few years.

Hey it's America, we all have the right to our opinions. Believing one is right does not make the actions right or wrong.

My opinion was not an attack-it was a statement of belief and observations.

Again I don't believe KS did the rally community any favors and good or bad we have to live with what is-and KS is moving on!
 

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> Has the competition got better? Newer equipment,
>yes-which may translate to quicker times but the competition
>is still much the same. What I mean is there is not a large
>increase in fields that create a real "push" needed by
>drivers in several classes to win, or as the WRC guy's would
>say "a good fight".

I disagree with this statement. Just a few years ago you could win a Group 2 championship on 5 rallies. This year it came down to a 3 point spread in the last rally of the year. Same with GN. The rallies are coming down to fractions of seconds per mile, now. That never happened a few years ago.

Another quote:
"The Subaru WRX SCCA membership deal is a phantom balloon as far as growth of rally membership-looks good on paper but not real. On the other hand I think KS did some good promotion but not all the growth is from his work."

Maybe it artificially inflated the numbers and maybe that is a bad thing for us (?), but I will tell you the number of fans/spectators out there is amazing compared to a few years ago. When I started going to Pro Rallies as a spectator with my dad and Randy Moore in 1983? there was hardly anyone in the woods watching with us. Some say this good, some say bad. I think the current turnout is great. I just wish the organizers could find a way to make this profitable for them.

Kurt has challenged me over the years. He has also helped me a ton. He made some decisions that were tough to make and tried to make rallying as successful as it could be. His idea of success may not be the same as others. Ask 10 people what "successful" (just being successful in life) means to them, and you will get 10 different answers. He made his decisions with input from a lot of people. He listened not just to those dirty manufacturers, but to the strict hobbyist as well. All in all, its not a job I would want, not with the diversity of opinion you would have to try to satisfy.
 
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