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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't have a rule book handy, and frankly I don't want to look it up. At some point in the field maybe 11th car or so; SS2 was turned into a transit.

Looking at the scoring why wouldn't this force everyone to have the same time outside of induced road points. It looks to me like those of us who go caugh in it are screwed, those earlier cars aren't.

Mayhap I don't understand?

Be gentle... I should know why this happens...:p

Rob Dupree
Co-Driver Car# 559 Audi S2
 

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>I don't have a rule book handy, and frankly I don't want to
>look it up. At some point in the field maybe 11th car or
>so; SS2 was turned into a transit.


7.6.D is what you want.

>
>Looking at the scoring why wouldn't this force everyone to
>have the same time outside of induced road points. It looks
>to me like those of us who go caugh in it are screwed, those
>earlier cars aren't.
>
>Mayhap I don't understand?

No, you understand. You got screwed. Those are the rules. ;)
 

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> At some point in the field maybe 11th car or
> so; SS2 was turned into a transit.

It was later than that, we (Havas/Kean) were 23rd on the road and ran the stage, and yes you were screwed if you were faster than the last car to post a competative time on the stage.

Dave Kean
 

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I believe 36 cars completed the stage. Those that transited the stage got a better time than they probably would have, but everybody behind them got the same time. It's possible the guys ahead of you in your class got screwed, too, if you got a better time than you should have.

It's called Force Manure. That rule's been in the book as long as I've been rallying. It may not always produce the results we'd like, but it's consistent, making it much better than making up scores on the fly when something happens.

Bruce
 

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"It's called Force Manure."

ROTFLMAO :p :7 :D

Kent Gardam
 

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I should think you might be thankful that they cut it off when they did. I was following Brian Vinson's Supra and he was behind Daubenmier's crazy S10. Both RWD and both struggling. I finished the stage 9 seconds after Vinson did. I had to steer one-handed for the last bit with the other hand on the horn to scatter spectators.

They informed me that I was the last car to be scored and that they had heard many other complaints of spectators with no sense.

If they would have stopped sooner, you may have gotten Brian's 9:01 or John's 8:49. It just wasn't a RWD friendly stage. As it happened, you got my 8:10.

Cheers,
Lurch
 

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It's a shame the situation happened, because the road surface was the best of Friday's stages. The redeeming fact was that the fall colors on that road were out of this world. My apologies to spectators, but I was relieved to see upper Brockway deserted...
 

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There are still problems with the rule and its application. Rule says everybody who has not finished when the stage is stopped gets the determined time. "When the stage is stopped" is not well defined. There is no practical way to notify the 10 cars or whatever that have started and not yet finished. So when the start is stopped, the stage is still not fully stopped. The cars still on stage are at speed, and their times do count. The best definition of "when the stage is stopped" is probably "everything behind the last car that started before the decision" or whatever. Or, in a case like this when spectator concerns were slowing people down on stage, "everything from the first affected car back". What about people like Bob Olson, who started prior to the start being stopped, and then slid off and got stuck, but was then extracted by Bob Nielsen as he was transiting through after the break? Olson was not fully or partially responsible for the stoppage - he should have gotten the 8:10 time that Lurch posted. That could be considered force majeurely beneficial for him. I don't know exactly how this was applied here, because several cars ('way more than the 2 max that would be allowed by the rule) had times in excess of the 8:10 time that was applied to many of the back of the pack. (For those of you who haven't consulted the rule, the organizers are supposed to take the worst time posted before the stoppage, or at least one of the worst 3 times, if the worst one is abnormally bad. So there should never be more than 2 times worse than the assigned time.) I suspect it was done well (intelligently, but not by the book), because although there were some informal inquiries, there were no official claims.

Best rule might incorporate a little more clear definition and specify ideal actions, but specifically state the authority of the officials to take the actions that are appropriate to the circumstances. It may be appropriate for someone who understands it really well to draft up an intelligent rule clarification.
 
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