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Kevin Welker
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You actually want to have the car in gear when using left foot braking. If the car is in neutral it's the same as pushing in the clutch with your left and braking with your right because any input you give to the accelerator pedal will do nothing.
What the poster of this was saying is he taught his left foot the sensitivity and technique required to left foot brake with this drill. Try telling any person off the street to use their left foot on the brake, regardless of if they are in neutral or not, your nose will be meeting the dashboard, post haste.
 

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You actually want to have the car in gear when using left foot braking. If the car is in neutral it's the same as pushing in the clutch with your left and braking with your right because any input you give to the accelerator pedal will do nothing.
Yes but at first it helped my foot become more sensative, so it wasn't just like smashing the clutch in. I broke it down to learn each part of the technique before putting it all together.


edit: wow should have read what Xman wrote before posting. But yes you are exactly right.
 

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ITURNRT
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Yes but at first it helped my foot become more sensative, so it wasn't just like smashing the clutch in. I broke it down to learn each part of the technique before putting it all together.


edit: wow should have read what Xman wrote before posting. But yes you are exactly right.
Yeah it just wasn't clear how you were using the neutral technique to condition your left foot thought. Another thing to note is making sure you are resting your heel on the ground. Big difference in allowing modulation and not getting the "face meeting the dashboard" experience.

But other things that help with left foot braking is running go karts or doing auto/rallycross. Auto/rallycrosses are nice because you can work brake modulation and technique since you stick it in 2nd anyway (depending on courses) and don't have to worry about shifting except at the start.

But a lot boils down to seat time in an enviornment similar to what you will be driving in. TSDs are nice to see what kind of roads you will see, but you still need to obey traffic laws so speeding and cutting across the road to make lines and apexes are not likely, but you can get away with it at times.

If you can, find a gravel pit or some open dirt field. Set up some cones for slaloms, 90° turns and just practice, practice, practice.

But as others said, you don't want to be practicing the wrong technique. I highly suggest you at least go to the 2 day Tim O'Neil rally school but if you're truely serious, do at least the 4 day. From there you will have a proper baseline to learn from.
 

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We did the Top Gear test track for one of our autocrosses and I almost hit 3rd. My shift light came on as I was going through the crossover which is 60-70. Then I drifted the back side turn-around thanks to LFB.
 

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ITURNRT
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We did the Top Gear test track for one of our autocrosses and I almost hit 3rd. My shift light came on as I was going through the crossover which is 60-70. Then I drifted the back side turn-around thanks to LFB.
I was going to ask, "How the hell did you do the top gear test track for an autocross". Then I thought you mentioned you do yours on airfields.
 

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It was scaled down a bit but we used pretty much a whole runway. The field we use is about 300' wide and about 3000' long. There are some hairy spots where the concrete has been pushed up. It's the Sunflower Aerodrome if you want to search it on google maps and we use the left runway. Kansas Highway patrol uses the same area for training, I want to collaborate with them and get a decently highspeed course and have KSHP Vs. Wichita SCCA
 

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Toltec Rally Team
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But as others said, you don't want to be practicing the wrong technique.
This is why the best prep for rally is rally school.

I highly suggest you at least go to the 2 day Tim O'Neil rally school but if you're truly serious, do at least the 4 day. From there you will have a proper baseline to learn from.
Having logged 10 at TON over the past 4 years, I'd recommend 3 days first time up, then another 3 days (repeat day 3) second time up, and >3 months apart. That way you can bring your new skills to rally-x and other lower cost motorsports as practice to build on in between. The 5 day class, IMO, is a lot of material to digest in a week.

Also, 2 or 3 days of winter school at TO really help too, nothing is less forgiving than snow covered ice...
 

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I've been practicing for years on backroads with my WRX (since 2002). I've been rallycrossing for years. In all honesty, nothing prepared me for my first time at full speed on a closed stage in a car that I didn't have to take to work the next day. I promptly proceded to put my new rally car in the ditch. When you sit in a car with someone who actually knows what they are doing, you then realize how much more you have to learn. I was manhandling the car thinking I was a superstar before because I could drift at crazy angles and keep the car under control. While a good skill, it's not the fast way down the road. Now I know it's all about smoothness... and balls, you gotta wear them in the front. As for buy or build... with the number of good cars for sale right now, you'd be crazy not to buy unless you have access to all the gear, skilled labour and materials to build.
 

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Speaking of go-karts, are the electric ones any good? I've only ever driven gas powered machines. The closest place to me has electric ones and claims 15hp. Thoughts?

 

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ITURNRT
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Electric karts are good and bad. Full torque at zero rpm but I hear they are heavy. Also the local place by me runs two hour endurance races. Can't do that in an electric kart since they get something like 10-15 minutes per charge.
 

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that sounds interesting. can you link us up with said forum, please?

mountain bikes are good practice too. even cheaper than dirt bikes...
not the dramatic weight tranfer like a motorized vehicle, but great for reading trails/looking ahead, feeling the tires on the dirt and threshold braking.
thumpertalk.com is a good one.
 

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100 hurdle, 50 brick wall....
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Steve, I don't think anyone here will tell you the real answer for legal reasons.

I WILL................

so here's what you do - helps if you have a road car thats reasonably quick or at least small and nimble....

1. hit the town with a full tank of gas and your future co-driver (spotter tonight)

2. go to a burger king and order a large strawberry thickshake (not McDonalds - too milky)

3. find a police cruiser (preferably a crown vic POS)

4. pull up alongside and throw the thickshake at the middle of the windscreen - dont miss or your screwed !!!

5. get away.... the shake screen gets you a headstart and if your good enough to drive fast and smart while all the adrenalin/fear/pressure and blood is pumping - then..........

THAT's GOOD PRACTICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


okay so Im obviously kidding and I never did anything like that....... Ever !!!!


seriously..... starting out.........

Rally School - YES
Karting - YES
Track Days - YES
Playstation - YES
road driving with your left foot for braking - YES

its so hard to learn nowdays when your not someone that grows up on a farm or has shitloads of money to go practice all the time.

but there is no such thing as bad practice - dont drive anywhere with an empty head, think about what the car is doing all the time, every time the weight transfers one way or the other it is doing it because you made it do it !!!

Karting rocks..... again if your thinking about what your doing while your doing it and not just trying to slide around every time you can.... and its cheap !!


AP.
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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For the pasty several years I have organised three or four test days each year. They are sanctioned and fully insured through ASN Canada FIA and are run on a road that is in a 'teaching forest' about an hour from the centre of the city.

These have proven amazing for full on methodical testing as well as being a place where volunteers, crew, media and sponsors can get in the car and go for a ride.

Finding a single 4 mile stretch of road AND getting permissions for it is much easier than piecing together a full event. I don't know what your insurance options are in the US but there must be an answer of some sort.

One thing that is for sure is that you can't do this without full equipment in the car.
 

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I WILL................

<snip>

but there is no such thing as bad practice - dont drive anywhere with an empty head, think about what the car is doing all the time, every time the weight transfers one way or the other it is doing it because you made it do it !!!

Karting rocks..... again if your thinking about what your doing while your doing it and not just trying to slide around every time you can.... and its cheap !!
AP.
Andrew is spot on! That is exactly what I do, all the time. Every turn gets a racing line calculation. I also strive for the smoothest possible transitions in every maneuver. I actually did do it for a while but now I just imagine the water-in-a-cup lesson from Initial-D.

Don't tell anyone but we used this spot... <http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.861837,-78.694808&spn=0.001428,0.002768&t=h&z=19> to test out our handbrake modification last weekend. As long as the place is empty we can get a few runs in and then bugger off before the law gets called. :)

Simon
 

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I WILL................

so here's what you do - helps if you have a road car thats reasonably quick or at least small and nimble....

1. hit the town with a full tank of gas and your future co-driver (spotter tonight)

2. go to a burger king and order a large strawberry thickshake (not McDonalds - too milky)

3. find a police cruiser (preferably a crown vic POS)

4. pull up alongside and throw the thickshake at the middle of the windscreen - dont miss or your screwed !!!

5. get away.... the shake screen gets you a headstart and if your good enough to drive fast and smart while all the adrenalin/fear/pressure and blood is pumping - then..........

THAT's GOOD PRACTICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


okay so Im obviously kidding and I never did anything like that....... Ever !!!!


seriously..... starting out.........

Rally School - YES
Karting - YES
Track Days - YES
Playstation - YES
road driving with your left foot for braking - YES

its so hard to learn nowdays when your not someone that grows up on a farm or has shitloads of money to go practice all the time.

but there is no such thing as bad practice - dont drive anywhere with an empty head, think about what the car is doing all the time, every time the weight transfers one way or the other it is doing it because you made it do it !!!

Karting rocks..... again if your thinking about what your doing while your doing it and not just trying to slide around every time you can.... and its cheap !!


AP.
I believe you need this car to do that:

 

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Registered
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For the pasty several years I have organised three or four test days each year. They are sanctioned and fully insured through ASN Canada FIA and are run on a road that is in a 'teaching forest' about an hour from the centre of the city.

These have proven amazing for full on methodical testing as well as being a place where volunteers, crew, media and sponsors can get in the car and go for a ride.

Finding a single 4 mile stretch of road AND getting permissions for it is much easier than piecing together a full event. I don't know what your insurance options are in the US but there must be an answer of some sort.

One thing that is for sure is that you can't do this without full equipment in the car.

This is by far the best option. I have been driving around town and back roads play..., err, practicing... for years. I learned more in two test days with the rally car than I have in the previous seven years.
 

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All the above are good options and of course T O Rally school if you have the bucks. We have run for three years with no place to practice till we finally asked an MX park if we could play in their dirt pile. For $15/day we set up our own two way run on the entry road and in between the jumps on the track. We used orange cones from our soccer days for corner limits. We go early or late in the day so we can have it blocked to ourselves. We will try an after dark session next time. We had a few early riders watch the first time and gave a 10 year old Travis fan his first ride in a Rally car. His dad said they are going to get a rally car.
This is good for local promotion and practice in one shot.

Brad
#727 Datsun 510
 

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All the above are good options and of course T O Rally school if you have the bucks. We have run for three years with no place to practice till we finally asked an MX park if we could play in their dirt pile. For $15/day we set up our own two way run on the entry road and in between the jumps on the track. We used orange cones from our soccer days for corner limits. We go early or late in the day so we can have it blocked to ourselves. We will try an after dark session next time. We had a few early riders watch the first time and gave a 10 year old Travis fan his first ride in a Rally car. His dad said they are going to get a rally car.
This is good for local promotion and practice in one shot.

Brad
#727 Datsun 510
How close are you to Wichita?/Are you coming Oct 3rd?
 
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