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Discussion Starter #1
I see scott fuller rolled can anybody give me more info? is everybody ok? how bad is the car? etc.
 

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Fuller and malik were involved in a roll over on the same corner...Both cars look pretty bad but look like they can be fixed...Fuller went to the hospital overnight for observation..I guess he got pretty bruised up.
This event has VERY fast roads...smoothest roads I have ever run..your speed can get away from you and problems come up FAST!

Look for this event on the National calender next year..

-greg
 
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Good to hear Scott is ok. Just met him at WW and he's a hella nice guy.

FWIW, the medical facilities in Steamboat are first rate. Too bad they had to be used.

Matt
(former Steamboat resident)
 

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Congratulations!

Congratulations to Verdier and Walker on their overall victory! We knew they were quick when they could keep the car running (on the road)! Way to go, dudes!

http://www.coloradocog.com/2003/results/Div1Results.htm


>Look for this event on the National calender next year..

I hope they can afford to do so.... knowing the organizers, I'm sure they put on an outstanding rally. I'd hate to see them lose a ton of money as has happened with some other "Pro" rallies over the last three years.

[hr]

[p align=right]John Dillon
John @ WidgetRacing.com
www.WidgetRacing.com
 

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RE: photos

I have some photos up on www.subiegal.com

these photos are another testament to the rigidity and stability of a good roll cage!!! I'm so so so glad Scott and Jeff are okay... (and yes, they're fine... resting/bumped/bruised - but just fine)

http://www.subiegal.com/images/RALLIES/Cog2003/fuller_vw_gti2.jpg

http://www.subiegal.com/images/RALLIES/Cog2003/fuller_vw_gti6.jpg

Overall it was a great rally, well worth the 40+ hours of towing...
This would be a great addition to the ProRally Schedule... great venue, awesome workers, good organization.

have fun
Jamie
http://www.subiegal.com/SGRacing/Team Schedule/subiegalwave.gif
www.subiegalracing.com
www.subiegal.com
 

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RE: photos

Being that the first three cars to that corner went off and two cars crashed heavily....I hope some analysis is going on to what happened?

If the note was wrong, why was it wrong?

Brian
 

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RE: photos

>Being that the first three cars to that corner went off and
>two cars crashed heavily....I hope some analysis is going on
>to what happened?
>
>If the note was wrong, why was it wrong?
>
>Brian

I don't know any more than you do, but you can be assured that I'll be asking those very questions on tonight's PRB call.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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RE: photos

The corner was marked as a double caution L4...I know our selves that the double cautions prior to that corner were over rated..My guess since we were not able to run that stage was that the drivers under estimated the Double caution.

-greg
 

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RE: photos

We were the first car to stop at the crash. thanks to Dave Epperson for stopping us with the red cross sign, ortherwise we would been on the top of the Volvo or WW.
The fisrt car the Evo of Zwart didn't have stage note and didn't make the turn, Fuller, Malik had the note and didn't make the turn either.
Here is the story the way I saw it.
We were on a long strait ligne with few crest, all of this crest were flat out. Speed around 80 to 100 mph. So we were getting used of this crest at full speed but the last one was a suprise.
I don't have the stage book with me right now but here is what I remember.
The note say " double caution small jump L4- off camber"
The note was correct but I think because of the speed we were doing it should been "double caution small jump, triple caution L4- or(L3) off camber"
What happen, the cars who crash slow down for the jump thinking that was the danger but when they got there, they realize the turn was the problem, hit the brake witch had almost no effect because the car was light from the jump and had no traction, tryed to make the turn still and went off rolling.
Zwart, when he saw that he couldn't make the turn, pointed the car straight down the hill, took off from the turn and landed on bushes, drove all the way down the hill without rolling or breaking anything execpt a tubo hose. fuller and malik were not that lucky.
We should been the second car out for that stage behind Jay Street. Jay broke on the transit to the stage and we got lost. Zwart end up beeing the first car out.
We shown up right behind Malik. I was pissed at my co-driver for behing lost but when we got to the crash, I thank him for saving our life. I'm 90% sure we wouldn't made the turn.
Execpt this problem the rally was fantastic. This roads are the one you dream about. Really smothe and fast. Everybody was really nice, the price of the entry fee uncluded stage notes, 3 shirts, 3 lunches, 3 breakfeasts, free party and a car wash. They had the cool idea, from the last stage to the finish line, the road book made you go throught a car wash, A kid was there and would wash your car for tip before the finish line so you'll show up nice and pretty. They had, I think 5 or 6 spectator area and a great video from the rally by 9 pm the same night showing at a local bar.
Guys this rally is cooool. I hope they'll go PRO next year.

Stephan Verdier

PS: I know my english is bad, but what do you expect, I'm french.
 

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RE: photos

>The note say " double caution small jump L4- off camber"
>The note was correct but I think because of the speed we
>were doing it should been "double caution small jump, triple
>caution L4- or(L3) off camber"

One of the things we teach at our Rally Schools (including the one coming up this weekend in Willows, CA) is that the stage notes describe the road, not the speed. From your quote above (which I put in bold to make it stand out), it sounds like the notes described the corner correctly. Since you were going much faster, you would have misjudged how to take the turn; maybe that's what happened to the others?

I saw another post saying that instead of a L4- it should have read L3+. This is a very fine distinction (about 1/16th of an arc, or roughly 10 degrees) but again, maybe it looked different because of the speed.

Thanks for posting your observations on this.... I think it's good for us to hear the competitor's perspective.

John
 

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RE: photos

>
>I saw another post saying that instead of a L4- it should
>have read L3+. This is a very fine distinction (about
>1/16th of an arc, or roughly 10 degrees) but again, maybe it
>looked different because of the speed.

>That could have been me. I was told that a 3 speaks of caution. Making the call a three would have said something. It's a practice one could make if they make there own notes instead of a computer doing it.4- and 3+ reads different. Could speed be factored in to the program some how during or after?

Jim Gillaspy
Speedy G Racing
RMD #401 RX-7
 

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RE: photos

>I saw another post saying that instead of a L4- it should
>have read L3+. This is a very fine distinction (about
>1/16th of an arc, or roughly 10 degrees) but again, maybe it
>looked different because of the speed.
>
>John

Granted there is not much difference between a 4- and a 3+. However, one of the most common pieces of advice to new teams getting used to stage notes is that the co-driver should just ignore the pluses and minuses and read the corners as whole numbers. In that scenario a 4 is definitely different than a 3.

Kent Gardam
 

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RE: stage notes @ Cog

In reality, the only thing that Jemba rig does is identify topography and severity of turns. Assigning a speed to a given number value in stage notes is flirting with disaster at both ends of the scale. If you get to where you're reflexively lifting every time a three is called then you're sure to burn time when handed a 3-minus into 3-plus right after some kind of 2.

On the flip side of that, you better believe that any 4 after a long straight needs to be shown a great deal of respect because it's plenty close enough to square to be ceratain you won't be hauling much of that straight-away speed through it.

The symphony that reveals itself in the notes when the conductor (driver) artfully brings them all together cannot be found if he is dwelling on a pre-assigned value for each individual note.

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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RE: stage notes @ Cog

It finally hit me x( This is what happened to me (and several others, I just happened to be the lucky one to find the big rock) on SS10 at Maine this year. Although the fact that the corner was off camber and the note said stay outside didn't help (instead of don't cut, and it didn't mention off camber), it was after a pretty good down hill section and it was a R4 and I was probably carrying more speed than I realized. I didn't take into account the extra speed from the down hill section.
 

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RE: stage notes @ Cog

Halley, your words are like poetry and your wisdom IS wise. I'm going to use notes in Prescott and speed into ? call is the thing I?m concerned about the most. That and the fact that I have to listen to somebody yammering in my ear the whole time. At least it's not.... Are we there yet? Where?s the next bathroom?
I wonder how long it will be before Rece will be done in the states.
A while I?m sure but what factors will it take before we start talking about doing it.

Jim Gillaspy
Speedy G Racing
RMD #401 RX-7
 

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RE: recce

Recce has been done at both Cherokee Trails and Ramada Express.

It's fun, it's fast, and you've got no one to blame but yourself if you screw up. (Well, Doug Robinson, Jonathan Schiller and Lee Sorenson could've blamed me, I guess!)

Still, in terms of time away from work and consistency of instructions (a vast improvement over route books across the country), I'd say Stage Notes are pretty danged good.

John
 

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So Jim - how'd Prescott notes work out for u?

> Halley, your words are like poetry and your wisdom IS wise.
>I'm going to use notes in Prescott and speed into ? call is
>the thing I?m concerned about the most. That and the fact
>that I have to listen to somebody yammering in my ear the
>whole time. At least it's not.... Are we there yet? Where?s
>the next bathroom?

So, how was it??? Can't say I've heard any yammering from either Montgomery or Weiman.

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com
 
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