[Casey Kobyluk]

The SCCA held a town meeting after the awards breakfast at RIM. There were about five national SCCA people there, including Kurt Spitzner.

The main impression I took away from the meeting was that these people believed the biggest problem facing performance rally was spectator safety at Club-only rallies.

It was said that some of the Club Rallies were suddenly drawing large numbers of spectators, and that the SCCA people worried that some of the organizers might not have the manpower to control them.

It sounded like they had been working on this for a while, and that it was their top priority.

Casey Kobyluk
Not a competitor yet, just a control worker

 

[Glenn Wallace]

If there is suddenly more interest in club rallies, then some of these people that are interested should be recruited as workers/marshals.

 

[Pinochle]

This is absolutely true. More workers should be required for every event. Especially since the number of spectators are growing, the number of workers should grow as well.

I think a campaign needs to be set up to encourage people who plan on spectating, to sign up and work at the rallies.

 

[jprowland]

To earn championship points in any rally series, competitors should be required to work at least one event from the series. So if you want to earn Pro points, you have to work a Pro event. For NEDiv Club points, you work a Coeff 2 or higher event. Etc...

I think this will have several benefits:

- Increase number of workers
- Increase competitors' respect for workers, and knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes
- Allow more fan/spectator interaction with drivers
- Competitors (esp. drivers) will have more authority in the spectators' eyes than average marshals
- Competitors might be more apt to enforce spectator safety, since they have a personal stake

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[mayhem83]

>To earn championship points in any rally series, competitors
>should be required to work at least one event from the
>series. So if you want to earn Pro points, you have to work
>a Pro event. For NEDiv Club points, you work a Coeff 2 or
>higher event. Etc...

This could work if and only if we reinstate the "best X of X+Y events will count toward the championship" like we had a few years ago. I would support it 100%.

Mark Utecht

P.S. I wanna work a marshall point with Diggins and try to get some of the speed to rub off him onto me!

 

[Denise McMahon]

Yes...there are more spectators at club rallys now.Most of them are looking into becoming a competitor. I try to get them to come out and work on the next rally...to get a feel of what goes on behind the scenes of a rally and how it works. The past few years at Rim quite a few workers have gone on to become competitors. Also there has been competitors that have turned around and became workers. For instance, my husband Pat was a competitor for over 16 years and once he retired (temporaily)...he wanted to give back to the sport and to the workers whom he saw out there time and time again taking care of him while he was coming through as a competitor. So we do try to encourage the competitors while not competing to come back and work the event on Rim...Patrick Rodi, Paul Timmerman, Brad Boli, Steve Bender, Mike Whitman, Judi and Gary Gooch, Bill Barfoot, Rick Hintz and the list goes on. Yes..I know this is a Pro Rally event, but most of these guys do come out to work the club rallys as well. Also I try to encourage the workers to go and work the club rallys as well.
On Treeline rally..I pool from my worker database to get that rally with as much workers it needs by the amount of stage roads/miles there are and to keep that rally safe for the competitors, workers and the spectators. Last year, we had lined up shuttle buses for the spectators to take onto these stages (even though it was cancelled due to the fire)...so safety was on our minds at all times between Pete, I and Pat.
Also training, training, training....Pat and I do control worker training and teach them to use common sense on these rallys...it is a dangerous motorsport just like any other type. Paul Timmerman does the spectator area marshall training to expect the unexpected and how to handle it. But things can happen and you just try to do the best you can to deal with the ordeal.
We have a worker video/CD, so that if they can't come to the classes, they have something fall back on to help them better understand the task, also put experience workers with the newbies...like a buddy system.
I came from Formula One racing and unfortunately...experienced when people got really hurt or even killed. It is a very unpleasant situation and something that is hard to grasp/handled. WE had to go on to find ways to make it safer since the sanctioning body comes down hard on the teams or the venue for any type of unsafe encounters. They have insurance compaines breathing down their necks to make sure things do go well or they will pull the plug.
There are times you can work as hard as you can as a organizer to keep your event safe for everyone concerns, but still something may happen due to workers confirming to work... but do not show up at the last moment, weather-(Rim), etc. (But, I did have a reserve list of workers if needed at the last moment). Just lots of things can happen before it starts and during the event things unexpectly happens. What it comes down to is using good sense and keeping yourself alert and asking yourself- what if as a organizer, as a worker, as a spectator.

Denise McMahon
Chief of Staff
Rim of the World Rally
Treeline Club Rally

 

[MattLovell]

Denise, you, Pat and a few of the other workers go above and beyond what could be asked from ANY voulenteers. I am always amazed at the effort put forth by you and the other organizers in So Cal ( I have no experiance elsware). Without you none of this would be possible.

Thank You

 

[rallytaff]

Thank you Matt for those kind words. The reason we go the "extra mile" here in SoCal is because we have the best roads, the best people who wants us to do what we do, ie, US Forestry Service and LA County, great competitors, great organizers and co-organizers, absolutely the best hams and workers on the planet, EMT's, Search and Rescue. Lastly, we all have the enthusiasm to put it all together and say, "We want more". Anyone dare to disagree?

 

[starion887]

YOu need to get the drivers/co-drivers of the top teams to agree to this......the last thing I want to see is another rule that is excepted for seed 0 and seed 1 drivers....which is exactly what I see will happen with this type of rule.

However, give them say...10 series points for working...then maybe you have something.

You rule is good for a club, but won't be acceptable to any pro team; they need to say they competed in every event.

Mark B.

 

[sdewolfe]

>If there is suddenly more interest in club rallies, then
>some of these people that are interested should be recruited
>as workers/marshals.

I just now renewed my membership and three licenses. No where on the F&C license is there any mention of membership in SCCA as a requirement to work a race. No where on the Safety Steward license is membership in SCCA mentioned as a requirement for licensing. (It does however state at the bottom that all licenses expire with membership.) Only on the Performance Rally Marshal application, in big red letters, in a big red box, are these words:

"Important Note:

Membership in the SCCA is
required for all Performance
Rally Worker positions.

If you are not a member, a
membership application with
the correct funds must be
presented at the time of this
application to SCCA Central
Licensing."

This is a HUGE mistake. There are many people, for whatever reason, who simply will NOT join the SCCA. There is not a single event that I have attended or worked that could have functioned without non-member volunteers.

I don't have a fix for this. I think requiring membership for all workers is going to be the death of ClubRally. The only possible "out" I can see is to offer temporary free membership to volunteers. If that is done, what is the incentive to join and pay annual dues?

A copy of this post is going to the SCCA.

 

[Sean Lucas]

I agree that making marshall's pay anything to come out and help for free is asking for trouble. Our big event is coming up in a couple of weeks, the club is offering to those who marshall, two t-shirts and lunch is provided both days, and they have organized a free picnic lunch/party for the volunteers the weekend after the event.

 

[jprowland]

You have to have a license to be a Rally Marshall? That's news to me.

I can see how it could be a requirement, since membership gives you, as a worker, insurance coverage if you get involved in a competition accident (read the fine print on your personal life insurance, it may specifically exempt racing coverage). But it's not fair to require if for rally and not the other forms of racing. All or nothing, c'mon guys...

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[jose vicente]

Hi guys,

I have to be honest and admit I am a bit offended by those of you suggesting we should force competitors to work rallyes in order qualify for championship points. I'm sorry, but we, as drivers/owners need to take a bit more credit for what we are already doing for the sport. We are the ones dumping thousands and thousands of dollars to put on this show called rallying, we are the ones who practically live in our shoppes, garages and back yards in order to get these cars ready for competition. We are hobbyists, yet somehow we figure out how to take time and money away from our jobs, family, etc. to go play in the woods. If the contribution we already make to the sport is not enough, then I don't know what is. Nobody pays us to do this, and the reality is that even if the spectators didn't show up, we would still be rallying, just like we did before the "big boys" stormed the scene a few years ago. The reason rallying is so much bigger today is simply because drivers and teams have raised the bar, and when you raise the bar you attract more attention. There is more money invested in rallying at the divisional level today than there was at the national level 5 years ago. The SCCA wants to credit all sorts of ridiculous things, including video games for the growth of the sport at the Club level, I say BS to that. Club rallying is as big as it is in the US simply because drivers SPEND MORE MONEY, and nothing else.

I undestand fully that organizers have very limited resources, and for the most part they do a hell of a job considering the situation. The standard worker recruiting method in the US is to put out a worker registration form, wait, and hope enough people sign up. There needs to be incentives, and in order for organizers to be able to offer incentives the SCCA needs to get off their *ss and figure out how to re-direct some funds in to the program they claim to own. The number of entries is growing, the level of competition is more intense than ever, the number of spectators is constantly increasing, but yet there seems to be no additional money coming in to the organizing teams. I've said it once and I'll say it again, Organizers don't need sponsors, teams need sponsors, what organizers need is investors. The SCCA needs to provide the organizing clubs the tools to get these investors, and if they don't want to help, then they need to step aside and let them do it on their own, but they also need to let them profit from it.

The day I lose a championship to someone because of points given for handing out time cards at an MTC, is the last day I rally in the US. Rallyes and championships are to be won and lost on the stages.

Jose

 

[Don Kennedy]

I'm not sure how or where it is worded, but I think you need to be a SCCA memeber to be in a hot area/control zone. Not to work a TC. That makes sense.

 

[Bruce]

>"Important Note:
>
>Membership in the SCCA is
>required for all Performance
>Rally Worker positions.

This wording has been changed on the latest applications, although I notice the one on the web page hasn't been changed. What it MEANS is that only MEMBERS get LICENSES.

>
>This is a HUGE mistake. There are many people, for whatever
>reason, who simply will NOT join the SCCA. There is not a
>single event that I have attended or worked that could have
>functioned without non-member volunteers.
>
>I don't have a fix for this. I think requiring membership
>for all workers is going to be the death of ClubRally. The
>only possible "out" I can see is to offer temporary free
>membership to volunteers. If that is done, what is the
>incentive to join and pay annual dues?

Where did anyone suggest that membership and licensing would be REQUIRED to work events? If you were at the SCCA Convention this year, you'd have heard it repeated time and time again when licensing was presented: THERE IS NO INTENTION TO REQUIRE LICENSING FOR ANY RALLY WORKER POSITION THAT DOES NOT ALREADY REQUIRE MEMBERSHIP.

Licensing is a privilege for members. It allows them to demonstrate their skills to an event anywhere in the country by flashing the card. It puts them on a list to find out about new working opportunities. It also allows Performance Rally to demonstrate some of their REAL numbers - the workers. If you don't want the license, don't get it. Go on working rallies as you always have. No one will care but you.

Bruce

 

[RichardM]

THERE IS NO
>INTENTION TO REQUIRE LICENSING FOR ANY RALLY WORKER POSITION
>THAT DOES NOT ALREADY REQUIRE MEMBERSHIP.
>
Which brings up the F&C question from many years ago, why should "I" pay for a membership to work for you racers?

The generally accepted answer is that membership is required for licenseing. Licensing implies skill and training and accpetance of the risks. This allows insurance coverage not otherwise available.

Personally, I am trying to figure out a method for the region to pay the membership dues for the workers. All workers, not just rally workers. But as a rally organizer, I am trying to raise the funds to at least pay the dues for the rally workers. We will need more sponsorship and entrants than we had at the last Paris event to make that happen though.

And as a side note, those SCCA workers who work the Formula 1 race at Indianopolis are required to join USAC.

Richard Miller

 

[jprowland]

>Hi guys,
>
>I'm sorry,
>but we, as drivers/owners need to take a bit more credit for
>what we are already doing for the sport. We are the ones
>dumping thousands and thousands of dollars to put on this
>show called rallying, we are the ones who practically live
>in our shoppes, garages and back yards in order to get these
>cars ready for competition. We are hobbyists, yet somehow we
>figure out how to take time and money away from our jobs,
>family, etc. to go play in the woods.

What does this have to do with contributing to "the sport"? Sounds more like contributing to everyone's favorite charity, themselves. Tell me about how you help get OTHERS into the woods, and then I'll listen.

> Nobody pays us to do this, and the reality is that
>even if the spectators didn't show up, we would still be
>rallying, just like we did before the "big boys" stormed the
>scene a few years ago.

And what are you going to do when the workers don't show up either? Nothing to do with spectator control either, I'm talking about not having enough to work controls. This happened at Great North Woods last year and a stage was cancelled. And with attitudes like "drivers contribute to the sport by competing", I'm surprised we even get that many. Reminds me of the grade-school kid who takes his ball and goes home.

I'm not in favor of handing out championship points for working. But it's not absurd to require working to earn championship points for competitive events. It's been done numerous times at the club level in other racing series when workers are scarce.

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[Rallychick from Oregon]

Jose V says, in a nutshell, that the reason we have rallies is because of rally drivers and teams competing.

JP says, in a nutshell, that if you don't have workers, stages get cancelled.

To which I, as a worker and a competitor (multitasking!) say: as a driver, I know that if it weren't for the organizers going out and finding the roads and getting the workers and setting everything up, I wouldn't have anything to do of a weekend. I'm offended that Jose was so self-centered to say the things he did, although he mitigated it by saying that organizers do a "hell of a job" with everything they do.

Yeah, drivers aren't paid to rally. Newsflash: most organizers spend more on rally than any driver seeded behind the top teams with manufacturer support. But the amount they spend probably approaches that number.

Rally drivers and organizers form a symbiotic relationship: we rally because they put them together so we can rally. Without workers, where the hell are you going to rally, Jose???

 

[Bruce]

>
>And as a side note, those SCCA workers who work the Formula
>1 race at Indianopolis are required to join USAC.
>

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Bruce
"USAC member for the weekend"

 

[Carlos Lopez]

Jose:

I really dont understand why are you so offended with the notion of competitors being required to work an event in the season. If memory serves me right this was a common practice back in the seventies. If every team worked one event, then where is the advantage? It would be equal for everyone. Also, it would help boost the worker base, and quite frankly, we really dont appreciate enough those souls who stand in the rain, snow and scorching sun so that we can have fun INSIDE the car. It might be difficult but not impossible to get the MFG teams to comply, like Mark says, but if it was made a rule and a requirement to qualify for Championship status, then I think it might be do-able. Also, for organizers, it would be a blessing to have knowledgeable workers to draw from. For competitors, one added value, if your car is not ready to compete for a certain event, just work it, you still get championship points!


Carlos Lopez
E.T. Racing
Car # 151