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Faster Mabricator
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the rulebook:

"A ClubRally National Co-Driver champion in each class will be determined from among the codrivers from each Division. Competitors will count their best five finishes (i.e., those finishes with those most points). The codriver in each class with the highest point total will be declared the ClubRally National codriver champion."

How much does this favor codrivers from divisions that have at least 5 events?
How much are codrivers from divisions hosting high coefficient events favored over those hosting only rallysprints?

Whomever is responsible for ClubRally needs to rethink this.
 

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www.christianedstrom.com
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>Whomever is responsible for ClubRally needs to rethink this.

Ok, Dave, what do you think it should be?

Median finishing place per rally divided by the number of coefficients offered in the Division?

Make them go to the CNRC?

Finally just admit that co-driver awards are a total sham, and stop awarding them?

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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That's a good question..in 2001 I went to the CRNC and competed with AZ Brian Scott in PGT for the Championship. I did all but two races with Brian in 2001, Brian was listed as Soupac and my region of record is Norpac which confused people when I switched rides after RIM and finished the year out with Brian. At 100AW we finished 3rd on day 1 because of a road penalty which caused us a minute and on day 2 we won our class and made up the lost time to win the PGT Championship. The thing that I couldn't understand is that the winning driver in each class is crowned champion no matter how they got to the run offs, it doesn't matter if you win a division that has 2 races or 8 races, yet the Co-driver walks away with nothing even though I co-drove in over 3/4 of the races with him that included several wins. When I questioned why the anserw I was given is that co-drivers jump around alot and the award would be delt out at a later date based on ....I never heard a thing after that.

David
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
>>Ok, Dave, what do you think it should be?
>
>Median finishing place per rally divided by the number of
>coefficients offered in the Division?

That is an improvement in that it should be by coefficients, not events. But I think out-of-divsion events should be counted as well. Maybe not any limit on how many coefficients are counted.

>Make them go to the CNRC?

Noooooo.
CRNC has issues too.
There are drivers selected from divisions without competition which are selected by practical default against teams from divisions with stiff competition. The selection process is not the equal just depending on where one resides. There maybe 10 or so faster drivers from one competitive division (but only 3 get selected) that are all faster than any drivers from a un-competitive division who get selected by default.

Further more, the ClubRally National Championship Towfund should be eliminated. ClubRally is grassroots and the $5 per entry toward
the fund increase organizer and competitor cost.
RallySprints must pay into the fund but many rallysprint teams are not interested in nor equipped for ClubRally. Why are the economically challenged grassroots teams supporting sending the Evo have-all teams to go to the CRNC?
Ditch the towfund, drivers go on your own dime. Codrivers are paying
into it but not invited. That is 50% of license holders not even
eligible.
So my answer is, ditch the CRNC altogether.

>Finally just admit that co-driver awards are a total sham,
>and stop awarding them?

Yeah, we both know codrivers are nothing more than ballast.
 

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www.christianedstrom.com
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>Yeah, we both know codrivers are nothing more than ballast.

Oh, I wasn't being facetious. I am all for eliminating co-driver awards. I think they're silly and meaningless.

That doesn't mean that the co-driver is ballast. It just means that the true measure of a co-driver is the finishing record and winning percentage of his driver(s). I just hate to see those posts like "oooh, I need a PGT ride at this event so I can win the PGT co-driver award." It smells of trophy-whoring to me.

Or maybe I should put it this way -- tying co-driver awards to car class is meaningless.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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don't cut
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Dave,
The ClubRally championship is based on the Club Racing model. It has worked for them. There is about $2 Million in contingency available at the Runoffs as an example of this success. Club Racing has been going since 1944. Performance rally has been going since only 1973. This means it takes time. Also, the same complaints you have about the ClubRally championship structure, many racers have about their side of the sport too. So you are not alone howling in the woods.
Richard
 

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I have to disagree, Christian. One of the main reasons I like rally is that it is a team sport and co-drivers are a major part of that team. Right now they are recognised as such. Remove co-driver awards and you remove a vital perk from the job.

This is, of course, assuming you mean all co-driver awards. If you are just talking about year end awards (not event trophies), I can see your point (although I still disagree).

Matt
 

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Marketing through Motorsports
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Codriver trophies

>That doesn't mean that the co-driver is ballast. It just
>means that the true measure of a co-driver is the finishing
>record and winning percentage of his driver(s). I just hate
>to see those posts like "oooh, I need a PGT ride at this
>event so I can win the PGT co-driver award." It smells of
>trophy-whoring to me.

Unfortunately it also relates to marketing, if you're hunting sponsor dollars. The proposal has to explain why the people with money should pick your team over another (assuming they pick any at all). One of the things they look for is the talent: talent behind the wheel, talent in the engine bay, and talent working the odometer. This is true even if they don't understand the sport at all--they simply want to know that the "top" people are promoting their products.

Yeah, I love trophies--in addition to creating a delightful wall space problem to stroke my massive ego, I love how they open doors to sponsors. I'd have empty walls if it hadn't been for Leon, Lauchlin, Fred, and many other drivers who worked the real magic, but people who don't understand the sport nonetheless understand winning. And, from the ego angle, I like the memories that each trophy triggers whenever someone asks about one--the memories of working together as a team, or of helping a driver go faster than he's ever gone before, or of triumph over adversity after (fill in your problem here).

Even a pseudo-win like Daewoo '99 is still valuable to the marketing people--they count on people NOT asking the important questions like "how many cars did you beat?" or "how come you got the trophy when a VW beat you on most of the rallies?"

So, while trophies for codrivers may not mean as much to those of us "in the know," they still have value.

Thus drops another pair o' pennies into the caldron of special stage debate....
 

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www.christianedstrom.com
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>One of the main reasons I
>like rally is that it is a team sport and co-drivers are a
>major part of that team.

I agree 100%, but I get more validation from seeing the driver win, than I do from a trophy for myself. If I do my job, and the driver places better than he would have without me, I'm satisfied, whether we're 1st or 10th.

Perhaps I should have suggested "team" trophies instead.

Christian

PS: In any case, I don't think this is very critical, but if you have a suggestion for how better to award year-end navvie awards, I'll listen.

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com
 

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www.christianedstrom.com
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RE: Codriver trophies

>Unfortunately it also relates to marketing, if you're
>hunting sponsor dollars.

Well, I think "team wins" is at least as compelling as "driver wins" and "co-driver wins."

>I'd have empty walls if it hadn't
>been for Leon, Lauchlin, Fred, and many other drivers who
>worked the real magic...

Ah, here's the difference, John! I've got a 500sf apartment that I share with Ivy and Hound. The less stuff (on the walls or otherwise), the better!

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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Faster Mabricator
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now? Anybody in recent history gotten one?

Seems impossible to verify the standings or awards for them based on SCCA's ClubRally section on their webpage and seperate division's point standings.
 

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RE: Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

Yes, there was an overall codriver CRNC award for last season. I hadn't received any communication or notice of it until one day a nice trophy arrived in the mail with my name on it (about 2 months after 100AW). It goes without saying that given the "blind" nature of club rallies the award was all due to John Drislane, my driver. Thanks John!!
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
RE: Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

>Yes, there was an overall codriver CRNC award for last
>season.

Ronan,
Seems like you are saying it was the overall trophy for winning the CRNC event, not an individual class trophy that per the rulebook is supposed to be awarded to class winners based upon their points standings throughout the season compared to codrivers in other divisions in the same class.
 

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RE: Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

I got part of one last year for G5. Last March a little piece of metal with my name engraved on it arrived in an SCCA envelope. I called Sue to find out what it was for and was told I was also supposed to recieve a CRNC plaque to mount it on.

I'll treasure that little slip of aluminium... :7

Dave
www.davekean.com
 

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RE: Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

>Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now? Anybody
>in recent history gotten one?
>
My Codriver got an award mailed to her after the event. I think SCCA used the full-year-series based calculation, since the placing on her plaque is different than mine (which was given at the event based on event finish position).

Jim Cox
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RE: Are the codriver awards for CRNC even awarded now?

No, it was for the overall season... we had a pretty amazing season, scoring max points allowed under the northeast coefficient rule.
 
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