[RallyBrat]

With the SCCA starting to push out the "little guys" in Pro Rallying and relying on Club rally as the proper feeder series, I'm just curious as of what's being done to Club Rally so the little guy in the future can work his way up to Pro Rally. I'm curious if in Club Rally, the seeds transfer to Pro? For example, say your Seed 1 or 2 in Club Rally, could that transfer to say Seed 3 or 4 Pro? I know this isn't the case right now, and I remember seeing something about how 2 podium finishes can get you a higher seed in club or something similar to that, but should we adopt a system like this in the future? Think about it, if your on the east coast and just getting started in Pro Rally now (and assuming that rallying keeps growining here) how will you ever be able to enter into STPR or Maine nationals if you can't get out of Seed 6 with club? Anyone want to share some insight, thoughts, or opinions?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[daphne]

No such thing as club seeding anymore. We've moved to a unified seeding system that encompasses seeds FIA and 0 - 8. You can get up to seed 3 or 4 by just running Club events.

So yes, the seeding system seems to support a feeder.

 

[DaveHintz]

It's relatively easy to become a seed 5 by running club rallies. Finishing in the top 60% in coefficient 2 or 3 ClubRallies is the requirement.
Not bad huh?

 

[Don Kennedy]

Seed 5 may not be too hard but after just thoroughly anaylzing the move to seed 4, I realized it is next to impossible to obtain thur club rally performance. You need to finish in the top 3 with atleast 10 finishers in 2 coef 3 events. When is the last time you came across a coef 3 club rally? Most seem to be coef 2 so you'll never be able to get there without finishing in the top half of a pro event and that's hard to do for many low powered vehicles. And don't tell me I should have commented back when SCCA was asking for input, I did. I didn't realize the requirement was coef 3 club events.

 

[J Cox]

>Seed 5 may not be too hard but after just thoroughly
>anaylzing the move to seed 4, I realized it is next to
>impossible to obtain thur club rally performance.

I am in the same spot (seed 5) you are. It will be VERY tough for me to get a ClubRally top 3 overall finish or a ProRally top 50% in a 160 HP 4000 lb RallyTruck regardless of my driving skill. In many cases the top 50% Prorally result might be easier to do, but many of the Clubbies have cars that are too old to enter, so we only the Top 3 ClubRally overall to shoot for. Personally, SnoDrift is my only hope. It seems like if a driver wants to move beyond a seed 5, you alomst have to run a fast car for a while. OTOH, if the only reason for a seeding system is for safety (to minimize passing), I'm right where I belong right now. I almost never see other cars anymore (that are still running).

The only problem I have with seeding fairness is if someone has been running in a faster class achieved higher seed, then brings their higher, into a slower class. This means a road position and entry list cutoff advantage over his/her classmates. Perhaps MacArthur's(sp?) seeding system helps in this case if he has the ability to lower a driver's seed as the driver's stage times slow down (after a few events in the slower car).


You need
>to finish in the top 3 with atleast 10 finishers in 2 coef 3
>events. When is the last time you came across a coef 3 club
>rally?

There's plenty in CENDIV.

Jim Cox
#558

 

[Jerry Brownell]

<<...many of the Clubbies have cars that are too old to enter, so we only the Top 3 ClubRally overall to shoot for.>>

Jim, you can always reskin your truck (it could really use it, you know), lighten the load, build the motor, and run G5. You don't have to do it all at once either. You are not relegated to Club only. Once you've reskinned your truck, you can call it a '93 and you've got plenty of eligibility left.

 

[DaveHintz]

Yeah, I guess I agree that Seed 4 is not easy to get by running ClubRallies (because of the coefficient 3 requirement) and because there are always several really fast Open class cars at coeff 3 events nowdays.
Maybe it would make sense to make seed 4 a little less difficult to achieve (e.g top 30% of a coeff 2 or 3 ClubRally).
Dave

 

[J Cox]

><<...many of the Clubbies have cars that are too old to
>enter, so we only the Top 3 ClubRally overall to shoot
>for.>>
>
>Jim, you can always reskin your truck (it could really use
>it, you know),

Gee, do you really think so? ; ) ; ) ; )
I wash it and put fresh Rustoleum on for every event. ; )
Next time you see Kaari remind her our truck is butt ugly. I have new fenders in the garage ready to go, but she doesn't want me to put them on until the old ones fall off. ; ) I guess she thinks we might hit something else someday and doesn't want to waste new fenders. ; )


lighten the load, build the motor, and run
>G5.

But then I'd have to leave the only class I can afford to be competitive in. Long live RallyTruck class!


You don't have to do it all at once either. You are not
>relegated to Club only. Once you've reskinned your truck,
>you can call it a '93 and you've got plenty of eligibility
>left.

I realize this. When I made the coments about the age limits, I was thinking of other folks who don't have a re-skin option.

Jim Cox
#558

 

[daphne]

Why should obtaining seed 4 be made easier? Sounds like seed inflation to me! ;-)

 

[Mad Mike]

> Perhaps MacArthur's(sp?) seeding system helps
>in this case if he has the ability to lower a driver's seed
>as the driver's stage times slow down (after a few events in
>the slower car).

That scenario played out last year in the Production Class ProRally championship battle - Tony Chavez owned a Seed Two ranking at the start of the season (secured thanks to previous hard running in the Open Class with a Galant VR4) but ran the series in Seed Three because he was in a VW Golf. Given McArthur's track record I don't think anyone in a Production Class car should plan on attaining a seed higher than three.

M. E. "Mad Mike" Halley, RealAutoSport, LLC.
http://www.realautosport.com

 

[Jon Bogert]

That's easy for you to say...

Slow driver + fast car = seed 3

Actually I think luck has much more to do with it. We got seed 4 at STPR 2000 with stock boost and a 5500RPM redline, but there was huge attrition at the front of the field and we managed top 50%. We got Seed 3 at Maine 2001, where everybody finished and we squeeked in with 26th out of 55 or something sad, despite an inconsistant run and giving away 6 (count them, six!) places on a leisurely last stage.

When the car's been running great, like at Cherokee Trails 2001 and STPR 2001, I don't do so well. Go figure.

That being said, with all the EVOs at every level of rallying now, I don't have a prayer of getting Seed 2 without one. Nowadays, either you have an EVO and do well overall or you don't, and don't.

 

[RallyBrat]

Thank you all for informing me. I never realized the seeding system had *that* many changes to it, I just thought they added on 7 and 8. At least for all the national events lately, a seed 5 could at least get into the field, and seed 5 doesn't seem to hard to attain in Club events.

Thanks for the input guys!

Alex

 

[Bruce]

Will somebody please send Alex a 2002 rulebook? We need his viewpoint on some of these things, and without the book, he's not sure what we're talking about.

BW

 

[daphne]

Well, the 2002 rule book is online at the SCCA's site. In fact, this year it is posted in very nice small files. I'm sure Alex has Adobe Acrobat!

 

[Jon Bogert]

16 yet? How's the college fund?

Hey Alex,

Wanna rent the Celica and run Sawmill? }>

Daphne and I are doing scoring, so we can't run.

Jon

 

[RallyBrat]

Yes, just loading the whole manual in Adobe Acrobat gets so slow it basically locks up the computer. My dad's about ready to start race prepping his Eclipse now that the engines almost done, so we should get one soon anyway

Thanks,
Alex

 

[RallyBrat]

RE: 16 yet? How's the college fund?

9 months yet until I'm 16 and 6 months more then to get my liscense. Maine could possibly be my first event (co-driving of course, I'll need to improve my seed in club first) So...how much do you charge, maybe, if I can find a loophole in the rulebook...

See you at STPR!
Alex

 

[mgpsmith]

Looking at results from 100 AW and CT, it is going to be very difficult to advance from Seed 5 to Seed 4 in a two wheel drive vehicle.
We're analyzing what we're going to do with our own rally efforts, and the handwriting on the wall seems clear, if you want to run ProRally, you will need:
1. Money
2. More Money
3. An AWD (preferable Turbo) vehicle
4. Did I say money?

OK, so those of us with 2wd cars will play the ClubRally game. But what will your road position be? Certainly behind the AWD cars who do a marvelous job of chewing up the stage. Which again means advancement to Seed 4 will be that much more difficult.
All that debate about the future of G2 and G5 may become moot in the future....

 

[Ole]

RE: 16 yet? How's the college fund?

Alex,

Get an FIA license . . .
I hear that they don't have a 16 year old limit.

(grin)


> So...how much do you charge, maybe, if I can find a
>loophole in the rulebook...
>
>See you at STPR!
>Alex

 

[Mike Hurst]

It's easier to get to seed 4 in national competition, at least in the east.

Had Tad or Andrew (or maybe myself) shown up at cherokee trails, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a 2wd car could have snagged a top 50% finish. Just because no-one did it does not mean it can't be done.

It's harder to get the top 3 at the club rally if a half dozen evos show up.