Club/Pro Rally Reality Poll
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946 Posts
look out
watch for all the knees flying around
watch for all the knees flying around
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272 Posts
RE: look out
I would vote for that!
I would vote for that!
Joined
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1,550 Posts
RE: A little explanation
Here is why I didn't put other choices;
SCCA has been trying to do it for a long time, they had management changes, they heard what we had to say however what they accomplished is obvious, how many chances can be given to someone to improve. Sometimes drastic measures are necessary.
SCCA has a lot on their plate and obviously rally is not in their priority list, so let's make it easy for them let's relieve them from the burden as they see it.
Do we really need more than one sanctioning body ? Frankly I don't see what it can bring to the sport. I'd rather have one good ASN, one good sanctioning body and individual clubs who act as regions and/or organisers. Is it feasable here? I'd sure hope so, I've seen it happen in a lot of countries that don't have the resources we have here and believe me they made it work and now they all have WRC and ERC events.
Sorry if I seem to be a bit harsh, but we can not afford to sugar coat the problem. We need to start figuring out what we can do for our sport because so far SCCA has failed us.
Cheers
M.Samli
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Here is why I didn't put other choices;
SCCA has been trying to do it for a long time, they had management changes, they heard what we had to say however what they accomplished is obvious, how many chances can be given to someone to improve. Sometimes drastic measures are necessary.
SCCA has a lot on their plate and obviously rally is not in their priority list, so let's make it easy for them let's relieve them from the burden as they see it.
Do we really need more than one sanctioning body ? Frankly I don't see what it can bring to the sport. I'd rather have one good ASN, one good sanctioning body and individual clubs who act as regions and/or organisers. Is it feasable here? I'd sure hope so, I've seen it happen in a lot of countries that don't have the resources we have here and believe me they made it work and now they all have WRC and ERC events.
Sorry if I seem to be a bit harsh, but we can not afford to sugar coat the problem. We need to start figuring out what we can do for our sport because so far SCCA has failed us.
Cheers
M.Samli
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
RE: A little explanation
No offense taken. I do think a little competition would be a good thing. SCCA progressed at a furious rate when they were faced with a successful NARA series. Perhaps if there were another credible sanctioning body competing for the Subaru, et. al. $$$, we'd see a more professional posture on the part of the current monopolist. Please don't hold up the so-called Rally Championship of North America. Simply saying that a bunch of glorified Club Rallies, along with Mexico & a Cherokee Trails that will probably never happen constitutes a Championship does not make it so. That will bring on the flames & protests, but what is, is.
No offense taken. I do think a little competition would be a good thing. SCCA progressed at a furious rate when they were faced with a successful NARA series. Perhaps if there were another credible sanctioning body competing for the Subaru, et. al. $$$, we'd see a more professional posture on the part of the current monopolist. Please don't hold up the so-called Rally Championship of North America. Simply saying that a bunch of glorified Club Rallies, along with Mexico & a Cherokee Trails that will probably never happen constitutes a Championship does not make it so. That will bring on the flames & protests, but what is, is.
Joined
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150 Posts
RE: A little explanation
I HAVE TAKEN OFFENCE TO WHAT YOU HAVE SAID JANDREINI. THE RALLY SERIES OF NORTH AMERICA IS NOT MADE UP OF "GLORIFIED CLUB RALLIES". IT IS MADE UP OF SOME OF THE FINEST EVENTS IN NORTH AMERICA. AND THE FACT THAT THE FIA IS LOOKING AT TWO OF THE EVENTS FOR FUTURE INCLUSION IN THE WRC SHOULD MAKE YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY. ALSO THE FIA IS LOOKING AT THE SERIES TO BECOME A REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. I WOULDN'T THINK THAT THE FIA WOULD PICK "GLORIFIED CLUB RALLIES" TO BE PART OF SUCH A CHAMPIONSHIP. DO YOU? EVERYTHING NEEDS A STARTING POINT, AND THIS IS THE STARTING POINT FOR THE RALLY SERIES OF NORTH AMERICA. SO JUST SIT BACK, RELAX, AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS. AND I ASSURE YOU SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN WITH RSNA. }>
I HAVE TAKEN OFFENCE TO WHAT YOU HAVE SAID JANDREINI. THE RALLY SERIES OF NORTH AMERICA IS NOT MADE UP OF "GLORIFIED CLUB RALLIES". IT IS MADE UP OF SOME OF THE FINEST EVENTS IN NORTH AMERICA. AND THE FACT THAT THE FIA IS LOOKING AT TWO OF THE EVENTS FOR FUTURE INCLUSION IN THE WRC SHOULD MAKE YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY. ALSO THE FIA IS LOOKING AT THE SERIES TO BECOME A REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. I WOULDN'T THINK THAT THE FIA WOULD PICK "GLORIFIED CLUB RALLIES" TO BE PART OF SUCH A CHAMPIONSHIP. DO YOU? EVERYTHING NEEDS A STARTING POINT, AND THIS IS THE STARTING POINT FOR THE RALLY SERIES OF NORTH AMERICA. SO JUST SIT BACK, RELAX, AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS. AND I ASSURE YOU SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN WITH RSNA. }>
Joined
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374 Posts
RE: A little explanation
Turn the caps locks off Fanboy. There is no need to shout.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
Turn the caps locks off Fanboy. There is no need to shout.
Philip J. Boer
[email protected]
Joined
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672 Posts
RE: A little explanation
jandreini,
"bunch of glorified Club Rallies"???? Really? Where have you been living?
Wild West is a national championship rally, Cherokee Trails has been a national championship event the last two years, and the Ramada Express stands up against any rally in North America.
Ray Hocker
jandreini,
"bunch of glorified Club Rallies"???? Really? Where have you been living?
Wild West is a national championship rally, Cherokee Trails has been a national championship event the last two years, and the Ramada Express stands up against any rally in North America.
Ray Hocker
Joined
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1,550 Posts
RE: A little explanation
Gents,
I understand your frustration concerning the term "Glorified Club Rallies" I agree it's not fair, but there is nothing wrong when a rally starts as a Club event and becomes a much bigger venue. There is one running as a part of ERC right now, as we speak, it's a coefficient 20 event and the second rally of the European Rally Championship [www.tofasrally.org]. Some people may be lacking foresight, but it's not a reason for us to lose focus and raise our blood pressures. So can we please get back to the challenge ahead and figure out what we have to do to resuscitate Club Rally.
Cheers
M.Samli
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Gents,
I understand your frustration concerning the term "Glorified Club Rallies" I agree it's not fair, but there is nothing wrong when a rally starts as a Club event and becomes a much bigger venue. There is one running as a part of ERC right now, as we speak, it's a coefficient 20 event and the second rally of the European Rally Championship [www.tofasrally.org]. Some people may be lacking foresight, but it's not a reason for us to lose focus and raise our blood pressures. So can we please get back to the challenge ahead and figure out what we have to do to resuscitate Club Rally.
Cheers
M.Samli
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
RE: A little explanation
As an organizer, I also take offence regarding Club rallies. I am currently trying to put on more than one event, possibly 3 or 4 here in SoCal in the same year. If I can pull it off, competitors will be able to compete in as many as 7 or 8 rallies here in SoCal alone. All Club organizers await your apology. Oh, I forgot to ask, just how many events have you put on? Don't even attempt to belittle what Ray and Donna, Mike and Paula Gibeault, Harris Done, Lon Peterson, Roger and Lynette Alison and countless others I may have missed.
As an organizer, I also take offence regarding Club rallies. I am currently trying to put on more than one event, possibly 3 or 4 here in SoCal in the same year. If I can pull it off, competitors will be able to compete in as many as 7 or 8 rallies here in SoCal alone. All Club organizers await your apology. Oh, I forgot to ask, just how many events have you put on? Don't even attempt to belittle what Ray and Donna, Mike and Paula Gibeault, Harris Done, Lon Peterson, Roger and Lynette Alison and countless others I may have missed.
Joined
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967 Posts
RE: A little explanation
>Simply saying
>that a bunch of glorified Club Rallies, along with Mexico &
>a Cherokee Trails that will probably never happen
>constitutes a Championship does not make it so. That will
>bring on the flames & protests, but what is, is.
Hey Joe, where have you been. There are no more ClubRallies, glorified or not, and if you stick with the SCCA soon there will be no ProRallies either. They'll cancel the whole shebang with a little note at the bottom of page 34 in FastTrack. That's what is.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
>Simply saying
>that a bunch of glorified Club Rallies, along with Mexico &
>a Cherokee Trails that will probably never happen
>constitutes a Championship does not make it so. That will
>bring on the flames & protests, but what is, is.
Hey Joe, where have you been. There are no more ClubRallies, glorified or not, and if you stick with the SCCA soon there will be no ProRallies either. They'll cancel the whole shebang with a little note at the bottom of page 34 in FastTrack. That's what is.
Jim Culp
prorallypix.com
RE: A little explanation
The positive point that can be taken from jandreini's comment is that Club and Pro events come from the same blood, especially on the West Coast. Given a little advance notice and support, many West Coast regional events could be upgraded to National (pro) events.
If we take control of our sport and create a professional national organization -- which doesn't exist with the SCCA or USAC, regardless of the propaganda, there is more than enough ability laying around to put on WRC class events. We just have to take control and do it. If the SCCA national office wants to play, they must give up the "management" reins to the membership and reorganize themselves into a services organization, consolidating the grunt work.
Doing this would help all SCCA racing, not just rally. The membership are not SCCA's employees, the membership are the SCCA's customers. They are set up as a managment organization that is superfluous to the self-governing membership. Meanwhile, my email to the SCCA regarding artwork for Oregon Trail's t-shirts has gone unreplied for a couple weeks now. The grammatical corrections to our pages on the SCCA website went into a black hole. Advances in timing and scoring are left to external groups like Rally America (kudos to which, by the way). Administration of the rules is completely left up to the PRD, a volunteer group plucked from the membership that tries to do well by the membership but are obviously not crack techwriters, graphic artists, or at all experienced with crafting documentation that works.
I could go on for hours. If the SCCA continues trying to "manage" things, they will fail and the rally community will form its own organization. Management decisions can be handled by representative government elected by the membership. If the SCCA wishes to continue existing, they must drop the management charade and become useful by providing insurance, legal counsel, document proofreading and administration, graphic artists, materials and merchandise purchasing, public forums, timely communications, etc.
Whether we persuade the SCCA to change into a services organization or not, we will need to create that services organization. At what point do we deliver the ultimatum?
andy
The positive point that can be taken from jandreini's comment is that Club and Pro events come from the same blood, especially on the West Coast. Given a little advance notice and support, many West Coast regional events could be upgraded to National (pro) events.
If we take control of our sport and create a professional national organization -- which doesn't exist with the SCCA or USAC, regardless of the propaganda, there is more than enough ability laying around to put on WRC class events. We just have to take control and do it. If the SCCA national office wants to play, they must give up the "management" reins to the membership and reorganize themselves into a services organization, consolidating the grunt work.
Doing this would help all SCCA racing, not just rally. The membership are not SCCA's employees, the membership are the SCCA's customers. They are set up as a managment organization that is superfluous to the self-governing membership. Meanwhile, my email to the SCCA regarding artwork for Oregon Trail's t-shirts has gone unreplied for a couple weeks now. The grammatical corrections to our pages on the SCCA website went into a black hole. Advances in timing and scoring are left to external groups like Rally America (kudos to which, by the way). Administration of the rules is completely left up to the PRD, a volunteer group plucked from the membership that tries to do well by the membership but are obviously not crack techwriters, graphic artists, or at all experienced with crafting documentation that works.
I could go on for hours. If the SCCA continues trying to "manage" things, they will fail and the rally community will form its own organization. Management decisions can be handled by representative government elected by the membership. If the SCCA wishes to continue existing, they must drop the management charade and become useful by providing insurance, legal counsel, document proofreading and administration, graphic artists, materials and merchandise purchasing, public forums, timely communications, etc.
Whether we persuade the SCCA to change into a services organization or not, we will need to create that services organization. At what point do we deliver the ultimatum?
andy
Joined
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258 Posts
RE: look out
I'd vascillated btwn hilmera's option or a new sanctioning body.
Regardless, my SCCA renewal app. will remain unsubmitted for the duration...
I'd vascillated btwn hilmera's option or a new sanctioning body.
Regardless, my SCCA renewal app. will remain unsubmitted for the duration...
RE: A little explanation
While glorified club rallies is is a gross exaggeration, his underlying point is probably valid. There are lots of other north american rallies out there that maybe should be in a north american championship. I'm kind of partial to STPR, but there are others.
PM
While glorified club rallies is is a gross exaggeration, his underlying point is probably valid. There are lots of other north american rallies out there that maybe should be in a north american championship. I'm kind of partial to STPR, but there are others.
PM
Joined
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150 Posts
RE: A little explanation
Forgive me for typing in caps. But when I responded to JAndreinis post I was at work. I type in caps all day at work and sometimes I forget to turn them off. I didn't mean to offend you or anybody else by stating my thoughts in caps. So when you look at my post please picture it with lower case letters where they need to be. And "fanboy"? What does that mean? Im part of the organizing commitee for the Ramada Express Rally. So excuse me if I sounded a little biased towards the Rally Championship of North America.
Rallyon (maybe)
Forgive me for typing in caps. But when I responded to JAndreinis post I was at work. I type in caps all day at work and sometimes I forget to turn them off. I didn't mean to offend you or anybody else by stating my thoughts in caps. So when you look at my post please picture it with lower case letters where they need to be. And "fanboy"? What does that mean? Im part of the organizing commitee for the Ramada Express Rally. So excuse me if I sounded a little biased towards the Rally Championship of North America.
Rallyon (maybe)
Joined
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5,777 Posts
New look this week....
When this was posted there had been not a peep from all the SCCA rally Poo-bahs and various junior and cheif kahunas.
Now we have seen some lame ass thing and all recognize the obvious idiotic absurdity of the SCCAs "action".
So what now re this poll?
Incompetence and reaction is obviously the best they can manage, I posit that it is at the local level where we see comptence, especially in the NW.
Can it be that there is something wrong with the structure, the framework of the SCCA über-befällstab oder OHK in general?
That somehow or somewhere there is something that inhibits or pervert the efforts of otherwise competent and motivated people?
Why should we not break away something like what CARS did?
Why should we continue with SCCA, what is the value specifically?
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
When this was posted there had been not a peep from all the SCCA rally Poo-bahs and various junior and cheif kahunas.
Now we have seen some lame ass thing and all recognize the obvious idiotic absurdity of the SCCAs "action".
So what now re this poll?
Incompetence and reaction is obviously the best they can manage, I posit that it is at the local level where we see comptence, especially in the NW.
Can it be that there is something wrong with the structure, the framework of the SCCA über-befällstab oder OHK in general?
That somehow or somewhere there is something that inhibits or pervert the efforts of otherwise competent and motivated people?
Why should we not break away something like what CARS did?
Why should we continue with SCCA, what is the value specifically?
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
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