close the door
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so how much of that statement was tongue in cheek?
my guess is IF the US, or any other NA area gets a WRC round, the "locals" will have a hard time entering... I understand it is that way all over..
I could understand wrong though...
my guess is IF the US, or any other NA area gets a WRC round, the "locals" will have a hard time entering... I understand it is that way all over..
I could understand wrong though...
Hmmm,
Here are my thoughts.
From previous discussion I come to conclusion that double standards, protectionism and ?legal-illegality clearly exist inside your Rally Governing body.
Having ?Top Guns? on this continent definitively will help (or not) marketing this sport. But you know?only one will get and this will open a Pandora box ? WHY NOT US?
There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers would like to participate in such events but?it could happen that the entry list would be closed?
Jerry
Here are my thoughts.
From previous discussion I come to conclusion that double standards, protectionism and ?legal-illegality clearly exist inside your Rally Governing body.
Having ?Top Guns? on this continent definitively will help (or not) marketing this sport. But you know?only one will get and this will open a Pandora box ? WHY NOT US?
There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers would like to participate in such events but?it could happen that the entry list would be closed?
Jerry
Joined
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283 Posts
>Hmmm,
>Here are my thoughts.
>From previous discussion I come to conclusion that double
>standards, protectionism and ?legal-illegality clearly exist
>inside your Rally Governing body.
yeah, and is present in most of the governing bodies around the world.
>Having ?Top Guns? on this continent definitively will help
>(or not) marketing this sport.
Most certainly, The Sport, not nessecarily our sport as the SCCA knows it...
>But you know?only one will
>get and this will open a Pandora box ? WHY NOT US?
Why not us, or why not THE US.???
Why not us? because we're not worthy. Sorry, I don't feel America is the propper place for WRC right now. Yeah, it would be great to see the heroes of rally, but I don't expect even 20,000 people to show, much less the hundreds of thousands that other places would bring.
Why not THE US? 2 words, Legal Liability. The lawyers have ruined this country (sorry Bruce ). You can't do a thing around here and not get sued. It's pathetic.
WHY NOT US (as said from a competitor)? Simple, because this is a world event, you can't be an Olympic Javelin thrower simply because you can throw a stick, and live in Salt Lake City... Don't fool yourself into thinking that many (any?) current SCCA competitor (with very few exception) will be ALLOWED to enter a WRC event.
>There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers
>would like to participate in such events but?it could happen
>that the entry list would be closed?
as I expect it to be...
Just my 2.25CN (.02USD)
>Here are my thoughts.
>From previous discussion I come to conclusion that double
>standards, protectionism and ?legal-illegality clearly exist
>inside your Rally Governing body.
yeah, and is present in most of the governing bodies around the world.
>Having ?Top Guns? on this continent definitively will help
>(or not) marketing this sport.
Most certainly, The Sport, not nessecarily our sport as the SCCA knows it...
>But you know?only one will
>get and this will open a Pandora box ? WHY NOT US?
Why not us, or why not THE US.???
Why not us? because we're not worthy. Sorry, I don't feel America is the propper place for WRC right now. Yeah, it would be great to see the heroes of rally, but I don't expect even 20,000 people to show, much less the hundreds of thousands that other places would bring.
Why not THE US? 2 words, Legal Liability. The lawyers have ruined this country (sorry Bruce
). You can't do a thing around here and not get sued. It's pathetic. WHY NOT US (as said from a competitor)? Simple, because this is a world event, you can't be an Olympic Javelin thrower simply because you can throw a stick, and live in Salt Lake City... Don't fool yourself into thinking that many (any?) current SCCA competitor (with very few exception) will be ALLOWED to enter a WRC event.
>There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers
>would like to participate in such events but?it could happen
>that the entry list would be closed?
as I expect it to be...
Just my 2.25CN (.02USD)
Isn't entry to the series something like $10k/event per car ??
I don't recall seeing any 'wild card' entries like in motorcycle GP, but I do remember something about John Buffum and a few others competing in one-off or even two or three rounds in the past.
Anyone been there, done that ??
Matt
I don't recall seeing any 'wild card' entries like in motorcycle GP, but I do remember something about John Buffum and a few others competing in one-off or even two or three rounds in the past.
Anyone been there, done that ??
Matt
Latest edition of RallyXS lists Canada, US, or Mexico each as hot contenters for a WRC round. Canada cuz the drivers and teams would like to do another snow rally, US cuz we are huge untapped market, and Mexico cuz they have a good rally with big money sponsor (Corona).
That being said, the only domestic cars running would be group N cars. What FIA class does an Open car fit into??
If a race was run in the US, I would expect one or two SCCA drivers to get one off works rides in a "third" Hyundai, or a "fourth" Subaru, mainly for PR reasons. Possibly Rhys in a Mitsu, Ramana in a Sube, or for old times sake (and cuz he can still kick ass) JB in a Hyundai.
Americans shouldn't be so hard on ourselves. We had an excellent showing at the ROC last year. There are 280 million people in this country. At least a few of them should be good rally car drivers. I predict we'll see an American (and I mean North American by that) WRC driver sooner than most think.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
That being said, the only domestic cars running would be group N cars. What FIA class does an Open car fit into??
If a race was run in the US, I would expect one or two SCCA drivers to get one off works rides in a "third" Hyundai, or a "fourth" Subaru, mainly for PR reasons. Possibly Rhys in a Mitsu, Ramana in a Sube, or for old times sake (and cuz he can still kick ass) JB in a Hyundai.
Americans shouldn't be so hard on ourselves. We had an excellent showing at the ROC last year. There are 280 million people in this country. At least a few of them should be good rally car drivers. I predict we'll see an American (and I mean North American by that) WRC driver sooner than most think.
Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
I agree that US, Canada or Mexico is not ready yet for such events but who is?.US have the biggest potential to organize such events and ?somebody? should take the chance and go for it.
But this is not about US - this is about marketing and politics of selling the cars(did you see in Mexico all the nice Peugeots on car dealers parking lot, do you see them here?), also WRC it?s not about 10K entry fees. To bring Kulig just for one national US events cost sponsors more than that! And sending Kulig to US was a part of rat race. Remember Poland also is trying to get WRC events.
Jerry
But this is not about US - this is about marketing and politics of selling the cars(did you see in Mexico all the nice Peugeots on car dealers parking lot, do you see them here?), also WRC it?s not about 10K entry fees. To bring Kulig just for one national US events cost sponsors more than that! And sending Kulig to US was a part of rat race. Remember Poland also is trying to get WRC events.
Jerry
>Why not us? because we're not worthy. Sorry, I don't feel
>America is the propper place for WRC right now. Yeah, it
>would be great to see the heroes of rally, but I don't
>expect even 20,000 people to show, much less the hundreds of
>thousands that other places would bring.
I believe that Quebec would be a worthy venue for a WRC event - great roads, great fan base, great tertiary (business, public sector, community) support, great (National) sanctioning body, current European driver involvement.
There would be significant event attendance (although I don't think FIA is interested in having 100,000 fans - probably quite the contrary - safety, stage cancelations etc... the money isn't made from on-site attendance, and it's all about money)
A winter event - with no studded tires. Very Canadian. Rallye de Quebec
>
>Why not THE US? 2 words, Legal Liability. The lawyers have
>ruined this country (sorry Bruce ). You can't do a thing
>around here and not get sued. It's pathetic.
Not as true in Canada - limits to punitive damage awards, no juries in civil cases, somewhat different mentality. In any case, both countries have run international rally events recently.
>>There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers
>>would like to participate in such events but?it could happen
>>that the entry list would be closed?
>
>as I expect it to be...
>
>Just my 2.25CN (.02USD)
With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either.
IMHO, the reason for wanting a WRC event can't be because any but a very few of us want to run it - where's the impetus? I don't imagine that David Richards sits at home and says "Hmmm..., there's 100 non-professional North American drivers who want to run in one of my events - better get to work..." It's not as though anyone will "grandfather" into the WRC because they were involved way back when... (sorry to sound smart-assey)
The rally-community benefit in having a WRC event (which, as an international event has little to do with national car classification/rules and related squabbles) is to increase exposure of the sport. Even this is pretty minor - there has to be community benefit - regional, national exposure, increased tourism - things that have nothing to do with rallying per se.
And the non-professional North American drivers, while probably excluded from the WRC event, would benefit generally, from the massively increased exposure for rallying. How? More local exposure/awareness, corporate involvement, maybe a single marque series - a development ladder, eventually a homegrown WRC competitor.
Maybe those of us who won't be included among the 5 or 6 North American drivers allowed to compete in a WRC event should help make it happen.
How many Newfoundlanders will run the Targa?
Robin
>America is the propper place for WRC right now. Yeah, it
>would be great to see the heroes of rally, but I don't
>expect even 20,000 people to show, much less the hundreds of
>thousands that other places would bring.
I believe that Quebec would be a worthy venue for a WRC event - great roads, great fan base, great tertiary (business, public sector, community) support, great (National) sanctioning body, current European driver involvement.
There would be significant event attendance (although I don't think FIA is interested in having 100,000 fans - probably quite the contrary - safety, stage cancelations etc... the money isn't made from on-site attendance, and it's all about money)
A winter event - with no studded tires. Very Canadian. Rallye de Quebec
>
>Why not THE US? 2 words, Legal Liability. The lawyers have
>ruined this country (sorry Bruce
). You can't do a thing >around here and not get sued. It's pathetic.
Not as true in Canada - limits to punitive damage awards, no juries in civil cases, somewhat different mentality. In any case, both countries have run international rally events recently.
>>There is no question that many North America ?top ? drivers
>>would like to participate in such events but?it could happen
>>that the entry list would be closed?
>
>as I expect it to be...
>
>Just my 2.25CN (.02USD)
With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either.
IMHO, the reason for wanting a WRC event can't be because any but a very few of us want to run it - where's the impetus? I don't imagine that David Richards sits at home and says "Hmmm..., there's 100 non-professional North American drivers who want to run in one of my events - better get to work..." It's not as though anyone will "grandfather" into the WRC because they were involved way back when... (sorry to sound smart-assey)
The rally-community benefit in having a WRC event (which, as an international event has little to do with national car classification/rules and related squabbles) is to increase exposure of the sport. Even this is pretty minor - there has to be community benefit - regional, national exposure, increased tourism - things that have nothing to do with rallying per se.
And the non-professional North American drivers, while probably excluded from the WRC event, would benefit generally, from the massively increased exposure for rallying. How? More local exposure/awareness, corporate involvement, maybe a single marque series - a development ladder, eventually a homegrown WRC competitor.
Maybe those of us who won't be included among the 5 or 6 North American drivers allowed to compete in a WRC event should help make it happen.
How many Newfoundlanders will run the Targa?
Robin
Joined
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71 Posts
As Quoted by Robin:
"With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either."
Finally the voice of reason here!!
The future of PROFESSIONAL Rally is not in the SCCA or it's club competitors. I'm not saying some of the SCCA Rallyists aren't good enough for the WRC (some are.) But not everyone gets to play in the WRC, it's for the pros. ClubRally will still be around for the majority of us who are into Rally as a Hobby.
Let's use this analagy:
I like to play basketball, but I don't expect the Lakers to let me play on their team. The same can be said for Club Rallyists who want to compete in a WRC event, unless you're REALLY GOOD, it just isn't going to happen.
"With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either."
Finally the voice of reason here!!
The future of PROFESSIONAL Rally is not in the SCCA or it's club competitors. I'm not saying some of the SCCA Rallyists aren't good enough for the WRC (some are.) But not everyone gets to play in the WRC, it's for the pros. ClubRally will still be around for the majority of us who are into Rally as a Hobby.
Let's use this analagy:
I like to play basketball, but I don't expect the Lakers to let me play on their team. The same can be said for Club Rallyists who want to compete in a WRC event, unless you're REALLY GOOD, it just isn't going to happen.
Re: Close the door
>With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not
>interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I
>would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either.
>IMHO, the reason for wanting a WRC event can't be because
>any but a very few of us want to run it - where's the
>impetus? I don't imagine that David Richards sits at home
>and says "Hmmm..., there's 100 non-professional North
>American drivers who want to run in one of my events -
>better get to work..." It's not as though anyone will
>"grandfather" into the WRC because they were involved way
>back when... (sorry to sound smart-assey)
Absolutely true. It's the high-profie superstars & cars of the sport that will attract the general attendees to such an event. It's ridiculous to suggest that local non-pro, Club-rallyists should be allowed to run in a WRC event.
Why are Club rallyists reluctant to be gracious hosts? I'm sorry if i don't understand the sentiment, but it looks to me as though the potential benefits will far outweigh the short-term inconveniences of accomodating a WRC event. Is there fear that The Club will be snuffed out by the Pros?
Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is consultation with international organizers who have experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
>With a few exceptions, if we get a WRC event, I'm really not
>interested in seeing many SCCA/CARS drivers compete in it. I
>would guess that the WRC target audience isn't either.
>IMHO, the reason for wanting a WRC event can't be because
>any but a very few of us want to run it - where's the
>impetus? I don't imagine that David Richards sits at home
>and says "Hmmm..., there's 100 non-professional North
>American drivers who want to run in one of my events -
>better get to work..." It's not as though anyone will
>"grandfather" into the WRC because they were involved way
>back when... (sorry to sound smart-assey)
Absolutely true. It's the high-profie superstars & cars of the sport that will attract the general attendees to such an event. It's ridiculous to suggest that local non-pro, Club-rallyists should be allowed to run in a WRC event.
Why are Club rallyists reluctant to be gracious hosts? I'm sorry if i don't understand the sentiment, but it looks to me as though the potential benefits will far outweigh the short-term inconveniences of accomodating a WRC event. Is there fear that The Club will be snuffed out by the Pros?
Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is consultation with international organizers who have experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
Joined
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283 Posts
RE: Re: Close the door
>Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as
>liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for
>outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is
>consultation with international organizers who have
>experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
just because you are not aware of it does not mean it is not happening...
the major stumbling block from my point of view is cash. Rally has no ROI in the states yet...
>Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as
>liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for
>outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is
>consultation with international organizers who have
>experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
just because you are not aware of it does not mean it is not happening...
the major stumbling block from my point of view is cash. Rally has no ROI in the states yet...
RE: Re: Close the door
>Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as
>liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for
>outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is
>consultation with international organizers who have
>experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
I'm with Bill on this one. All sorts of consultation and solution-seeking has gone on. The fact that it hasn't yet produced a US WRC round is not for lack of trying.
Bruce
>Organizers have valid concerns over issues such as
>liability, but as of yet nobody seems willing to ask for
>outside help and be proactive about finding solutions. Is
>consultation with international organizers who have
>experience with larger rallies out of the question?...
I'm with Bill on this one. All sorts of consultation and solution-seeking has gone on. The fact that it hasn't yet produced a US WRC round is not for lack of trying.
Bruce
Joined
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1,043 Posts
I don't know, guys:
1. All WRC rounds have a number of local entries that don't get reported on - especially Mediterranean and Antipodean events. You know, most good NorthAm drivers could get an entry on the Swedish Rally...
2. If WRC comes, it looks like Corona is way ahead of Quebec, Charlevoix, Cherokee and Laughlin. I'm rooting for Canada, but...
3. If it comes to any of those, I will do everything I can to enter. I don't care what David Richards is thinking. And I don't think I'm being absurdly optimistic...
ACP
www.musketeerrcing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics.
1. All WRC rounds have a number of local entries that don't get reported on - especially Mediterranean and Antipodean events. You know, most good NorthAm drivers could get an entry on the Swedish Rally...
2. If WRC comes, it looks like Corona is way ahead of Quebec, Charlevoix, Cherokee and Laughlin. I'm rooting for Canada, but...
3. If it comes to any of those, I will do everything I can to enter. I don't care what David Richards is thinking. And I don't think I'm being absurdly optimistic...
ACP
www.musketeerrcing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics.
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