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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to know how a celebrity like Pastrana or Troy Lee or the like can simply bypass the rules & gain instant access to PRO status and be a SEED 8, while the mortals of the world cannot go "PRO" until they hit seed 5?

Also- why do they place them higher in the start order?(Troy was placed mid-pack at LSPR 02)I will assume that Travis will likely be given preferrential treatment in start order as well...

This is a bit of a slap in the face of those of us poor people who bust a** to pay to compete.

Anyone know a real reason? Or is it simply "money talks"?

edit- spelling

JC
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If you are refering to the ENTRY list don't get real excited. The actual START ORDER won't be prepared until registration is closed.

I think there is something in the rulebook about prior racing experience to help determine seeding. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know for sure they ask about it on the entry form. He probably put something lame on his entry like "I was the pioneer of the backflip and every other crazy trick on dirt bikes".
 

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You were expecting?
If the celebrity types are of dirtbike background, and they were any good at it, then they will likely do pretty well.
Vance Walker here in the Northwest is a bike guy. He jumped right into a rallycar and stomped all our butts in a JUNK car. Then he got an awful 4wd Celica and beat us all far worse. Thankfully Vance gave it up so that we won't all have to be embaressed when he comes out to play. Of course Vance is from a different planet then the rest of us too. ;-) We all remember the Muddy stage that Vance whipped all the "PROS" so badly at that the stage had to be thrown out don't we? :7
Of course rules is rules only for we the great unwashed. The sooner we get that through our heads the better.

John Lane
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JC-

This is the same thing that was provided to Eric Comas, former F1 driver, and a number of other "grey" level celebs in the past, and likely in the future as well.

But in the big picture, "who really cares?!?!" Their speed rating will be set after this event, and then that is that....

Besides, you got to feel a little bit sorry for him. Starting out his rally career at an event like Sno-drift. Nothing is forgiving there, and you simply can't make any mistakes with out paying for it.

Personally, I would like to see him do well in the long run. He commands a good amount of media attention, and the sport could really use someone to help pull us out of "media dark ages."

Besides, this would be a perfect opportunity for someone like "54321" or the new "Fuel network" to come in and carry us on a regular basis.

But I could be completely wrong

Jeff Burmeister
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The rule book has provisitons to skip the seed 5 requirements and they have been used by many people, normal average people, to do events with out needing to get seeded. I bet if you asked even you could enter a pro event as a seed 8.

I had to do something like that to get my wife a club licence so she could co-drive for me in her first event that happened to be in Canada, so basicaly we outlined a plan to coach her and support her during the event that convinced the SCCA stewart to sign off on a club licence even though she had never attended a licence seminar in the US like all new people need to do prior to their first event.

I would say that in this case the rule works and your complants are possiblly misplaced.
 

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He did run in Grand Canaria Race of Champions in a rally car, although I have the distinct memory of him rolling that car, he techncially has "international rallying experience".
 

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The stewards place drivers in start orders based on their perceived speed in the car they're driving. This is a safety thing, and has nothing to do with money or anything else but SAFETY. I've seen an FIA seed driver start 28th on the road. It ain't an easy task, but virtually every event steward has to move SOMEBODY in the start order...and deal with those who THINK they should be moved. Ask me - I might move you up in the order...or not. :)

ProRally licenses can be issued based on prior racing experience. (Do you think Pasi Hagstrom had to start at Seed 8 last season?) Again, it's not an easy decision to make, but most racing professionals - from whatever motorsport - will get them. Some of the "celebrities" you see have actually paid their dues and run events or professional schools without fanfare to get that Pro license.

Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree that having high profile people attracts media & is good for any sport.

I personally have a problem with wealthy/famous people getting preferrential treatment, because I am jealous & know I could doat least as well with better equipment.

I disagree strongly with the "if you are fast on dirt bikes, you are fast on anything" theory. Vance may have been fast- I wasnt there. Travis may be fast, we will see. But, one who can afford to wreck stuff can easily be faster than one who cant. Period. I would be hella-fast if I had money comming from my hind-quarters. Another reason factory guys can out-compete independents.

So this was more of a jealous rant than anything...
:)

JC
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First, the entry list is sorted by class, not seed. SCCA will, in its infinite wisdom, provide Sno*Drift with the order in which to start the cars. After 7 relatively short stages, the reseed will weed out the bottom feeders.

Given that we are dealing with hard packed snow and ice, it is not likely that road position will play much of a part unless you happen to be more than 12% faster than the car in front of you. Not likely.
 

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As long is he is paying for a ride out of his own pocket...like everyone else here...I don't have too much of a problem with anything. Proof is in the pudding.

But if the SCCA is paying his way...I think it stinks...after all, there are a lot of current rally drivers (both club and pro) that deserve a chance at "stardom" and could be marketed successfully if they got in the right car.

I don't think that transplant drivers are necessary to promote the sport.

- Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
1)Troy said he had no experience other than dirt bikes.

2)I am not going by the entry list, as I understand it is not the start order(I'm new, but not THAT new) :)

3)Pasi or anyone else with an FIA license is of course not a begineer. Wadding a WRC car at an invitation only celebrity circus is not what I personally consider rally experience.

4)Someone with a raly school should still be seed 7, therefore not PRO eligable. (IMHO of course).

Bruce, my main point here is that why have the rules if people with money or that simply ask can waltz around them. I shouldnt be able to just ask for PRO status. Neither should others. It should be earned.

JC
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>I personally have a problem with wealthy/famous people
>getting preferrential treatment, because I am jealous & know
>I could doat least as well with better equipment.
>

My point was that position in the start order is not "preferential treatment." After the first reseed, everyone should be where they belong anyway.

Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I disagree again. Main experience up front = less stuffs & 12% faster or not, we(everyone) will be catching other cars. The icier, the more margin of error from us trying to go fast & move up.

Us in the back half will have more cars in the road & ditches to deal with. I just believe that is the way it is. That's what we see.

JC
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>Anyone know a real reason? Or is it simply "money talks"?

Sure, following the PRRs, Travis sent a letter to the PRSM requesting that he be afforded a ProRally license, based on his attendance at schools with David Higgins and Tim O'Neil, his multiple days experience driving a Subaru with Mark Lovell, his participation in the 2003 Michelin Race of Champions, and his prior motocross experience.

The judgement of the PRSM, based on the facts above, were that Travis was qualified for a ProRally license, and the PRSM granted an exception to the seeding requirements.

The start order at Sno*Drift will be unaffected by the licensing, so watch your mirrors!

- Christian

>JC
>#595
>www.gnimotorsports.com

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I understand your position, but start order IS important & preferrential, as the first few stages are run before reseed, and that can delay a team toward the rear, when there are more people to go around & more damage to the stages(on dirt).

I do not think reseeding helps those in the back often.

Simply my opinion.

My main intent of this rant was to bring to light that anyone can ask & receive Pro status. I read the rulebook & never asked, as I assumed people had to follow the rules.

Why then, did Purzycki have to run Clubrally decals last year? Isnt he Pro? Couldn't he of simply asked?

All I want is to have a level playing field with rules enforced evenly to all. The wealthy already have every other advantage over me, they shouldn't have the advantage of skirting a rulebook too.

Right?

JC
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If he is put behind us, I will be elated. And scared.
:)

He is running PGT?
Yup. I will watch for him. And welcome the challenge. I now have a new goal. to beat TP.

Now, WHO PAID for his mutliple schooling by Digins & others?

I bet he didnt have to pay... And he is one who could afford it. THAT is why I am upset. I am simply jealous. I will get over it.

Thanx all for putting me in my place.

It will be all that sweeter when we beat him in a beginner's GTI.

ALthough, that will help sell the car...
;)

JC
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Purzycki

Did Mike (or are you talking about Karen?) HAVE to run Club, or did he CHOOSE to?

If Mike did not have a current speed factor because he hasn't run in a long time, he could have asked for a start order change.

This doesn't really have much to do with Pastrana, other than reading the rules, and asking.

Think SAFETY, not $, not celebrity (although the later 2 can get you more experience, faster, than some of the rest of us).

>
>Why then, did Purzycki have to run Clubrally decals last
>year? Isnt he Pro? Couldn't he of simply asked?
>JC
>#595
>www.gnimotorsports.com

press on,
 
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