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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(Disclaimer: I worked the stage but have no first hand information about the situation. I do not know the team in question, and I have no personal agenda to satisfy, or any personal issue to hold against them. I am only interested in what is best for the US ProRally Community and the sport as a whole.)

Has the team or the driver proven they/he can't play nice?

It seems they/he have.

It would be great for the personal careers of the team to win the SCCA Group N Championship, but would it be great for the SCCA Group N Championship?


I don't think he has shown that he brings anything of value to our, the SCCA ProRally Championship, Series.

Do we need him?

There are now two solid incidents of unsportsman like conduct. One endangered civilians and workers, one ended competition and caused chaos during an event.

Would we license someone who showed a clear disdain for the rules, disregard for the competition, or demonstrated poor judgement on a continual basis?

With the challenges we have ahead of us, we might be best off including only those who follow the rules both on and off the stages.

If the facts are as they seem: let the team try again in 2004, if they are still interested by then.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Can't the organizers be pro-active in this, and "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", meaning refuse entry?

Just curious...

KT
 

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I for one would hope that the STPR incident results in some kind of SCCA action that will show that the competitors in the press releases receive equal treatment to those that don't.

Last year a couple of teams were excluded from events. Neither of these teams is associated with a Manufacturer. If they should be excluded or not is not my point. They were.

Wild West in the opinion of many, had a couple of high level manufacturer drivers speed through service. Enough of a problem that some penalties were initially applied and then resinded. Enough that a very long time board member resigned on the spot.

Everyone should be treated equal. I guarantee if I showed a red cross to intentionally kill a stage, that I would not be seen on the stages the next event or two, or perhaps ever.
 

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Aren't intentionally false fire alarms illegal in the commonwealth of PA?

I wonder what the county prosecutor would have to say about this.
 

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If we give credit to the "powers that be" on the national level to have been looking out for the best interests of the sport by taking dramatic extra-ordinary safety measure steps at STPR in an effort to prove to the insurance entities that performance rallying is still viable, shouldn't we also expect that they will take the dramatic extra-ordinary steps needed to prevent any negative influences from potentially ruining the integrity of the sport?

Kent Gardam

Edit: Well, I just read ACP's comment on the other thread about this incident. Silly me, I should have known better than to confuse integrity with the interests of the few.
 

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>If we give credit to the "powers that be" on the national
>level to have been looking out for the best interests of the
>sport by taking dramatic extra-ordinary safety measure steps
>at STPR in an effort to prove to the insurance entities that
>performance rallying is still viable,



Not commenting on anyone's guilt or innocence, but it seems to me that an appropriate penalty would be to have a guilty party's seed classification pulled.

If you don't know the rules for properly displaying signs, then it seems obvious you should have to go back and run club events until you demonstrate that you know how the system works.

But wait. Club events are on hold.

Nonetheless, a basic rule of thumb is that you get to run at the front because you're more experienced, skilled and know the rules.

Pulling seed classification doesn't keep anyone from running, just gives them an opportunity to relearn the rules that they supposedly knew.

Banning an entry from two events I wasn't planning on running anyway isn't a big deal. Dropping my seed classification back to a beginner's level will have an impact on what I can enter and where I'd be running on the road.
 

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Subaru Contingency:

Eligble class: Group N

Year end Payouts:

1st $25,000
2nd $12,500
3rd $8,000
4th $6,000
5th $5,000
6th $4,000
7th $3,000
8th $2,000

Last Years standings (number of points for each place):

1st Ralph Kosmides 41
2nd Tim O'Neil 40
3rd Mark Utecht 19
4th Craig Peeper 18
5th Shane Mitchell 12
6th Seamus Burke 10
7th Janusz Kulig 10
8th Peter Thomson10
9th Henry Krolikowski 10

So 10 points last year would be worth (4 way tie for 6th, but only 3 drove subarus) (4000+3000+2000=9000)/3=3000. 3000 is a lot of incentive to try and do whatever it takes to get a finish.

If we carry it out further, and 10 points ended up being the difference between first and 2nd, a red cross to save yourself a DNF could be worth 12500. TWELVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED. PLUS an invitation to drive for SUBARU proper... How much would that be worth? If the finish rate for a certain Blue team doesn't improve, winning Group N could very well mean a drive for next year.

With all of that riding on a finish, and no real penalty for stopping a stage, why wouldn't one stop the stage as soon as the first Group N car showed up to give yourself a chance to transit the stage and get a finish?
 

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>If you don't know the rules for properly displaying signs,
>then it seems obvious you should have to go back and run
>club events until you demonstrate that you know how the
>system works.
Rules were clearly understood. What was done was not done on accident.

>But wait. Club events are on hold.
>
>Nonetheless, a basic rule of thumb is that you get to run at
>the front because you're more experienced, skilled and know
>the rules.
Those things are factors, but the real reason is that having the fastest cars up front is the SAFEST way to have a rally. No passing is the goal.

>Pulling seed classification doesn't keep anyone from
>running, just gives them an opportunity to relearn the rules
>that they supposedly knew.
Do you want a seed 0/1 driver to start one minute behind you? I had Paul Choinere 1 minute behind me before. I believe he passed me plus the next three cars in 9 miles.

>Banning an entry from two events I wasn't planning on
>running anyway isn't a big deal. Dropping my seed
>classification back to a beginner's level will have an
>impact on what I can enter and where I'd be running on the
>road.
If I run a Subaru in Group N and win the class I get an invitation to test at ProDrive and perhaps get to be a factory driver in 2004. If SCCA kept me from being able to run enough events to win the class, that would get my attention. And anyone else that might consider similar action.
 
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