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I'm planning to make STPR my first rally in the States, and I have a question about the licensing/membership procedures.

I currently have a CARS National license, and I have my SCCA membership application filled out and ready to be mailed. However, the rules say that I can run on a CARS license, but I have to fill out and send a ProRally license application (without payment) to the SCCA for some reason. Does anybody actually do this? Does the SCCA take care of getting the ProRally & ClubRally Stewards' signatures? And, finally, can I send in the license application even though I'm not yet a member of the SCCA?

Any other advice would be appreciated.

TIA

Alan
 

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>I have to fill out and send a ProRally license application
>(without payment) to the SCCA for some reason. Does anybody
>actually do this?

I sent in mine last year before I ran Sawmill just to make sure I was in accordance with the rulebook. I never got a reply (didn't really expect to), and nobody at the event asked me for any proof that I had done it.

For the ins & outs of rallying in the US with a Canadian licence, the person to talk to would probably be Adrian Wintle. Adrian, you around?

Jeff
 

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I'm not Adrian, but I've done some of this as well.
You can submit the membership and licence application concurrently.
If you do that they will surely bill you for the licence as well as the membership. Rationale is that the licence application puts you on the mailing list for the Pro/Club Rally. Memebership gets you covered on the insurance policy.
I actually go to the trouble of getting a US licence, even though that is against the CARS rules. I do that because I wouldn't want to put a driver into the position of being either disqualified or refused an entry when encountering a registrar that isn't familiar with that rule. Even the SCCA office has to be reminded each year.
I'd do this soon as I expect a telephone call will be necessary.
Adrian has never had an SCCA licence, only completing the application form, and he has encountered no problems. I just prefer not to take the chance.
Cheers,
Peter
 

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>I actually go to the trouble of getting a US licence, even
>though that is against the CARS rules. ...

It isn't against CARS rules for you to hold an SCCA license and run in the US. CARS rules just say that if you're a Canadian resident running events in Canada, or if you want to score points in Canada, you need a CARS license. There's nothing to stop you holding both.
 

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the 'proper' way to do it is as follows - i don't know why the rulebook is not corerct on this, when i first started i got an actual license as well, but then that caused problems when applying for international licenses, seeding, upgrading to national/pro, SCCA ProRally numbers, etc. etc. etc.

The requirement is for insurance cover waiver signing, and the waiver si only signable by scca members. This is covered by crew membership.

get your cars license

get an SCCA crew membership

use the crew membership to get insurance cover/sign waiver, the cars license for everything else including seeding, driving, etc. etc.

then you dont have to go through 2 license app processes, etc. it might not make any diff starting out, but the above procedure is what we (and anyone else coming from another country) should do

getting 2 licenses is not correct for all the reasons I stated. been there done that. plus this way you can 'upgrade' to SCCA status on a moments notice because crew memberships are easy to get

-Pat
 

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>get your cars license
>
>get an SCCA crew membership
>
>use the crew membership to get insurance cover/sign waiver,
>the cars license for everything else including seeding,
>driving, etc. etc.

As Pat said.

I have always run on my CARS national license, with an SCCA membership (remember to tick the Crew License box - it apparently provides a little more insurance coverage). I have never filled out an SCCA license app per the rulebook (although I've been prepared to if asked). Best bet is to order a rulebook from the SCCA if you haven't already done that.

Adrian
 

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Interesting tip's thank very much.

STPR is not to far from our place...it would of been nice...but at 750$ "US"....we mite waith a couples of year ...doz all pros SCCA rally cost that much ?

i dont know how it work whit the scca.....pros rally and club rally ?
ok...i see the diference...i guess it like national and regional for us in Canada ?

i have my national licence....and we will do most of the national event..... will i be abble to register in a Pros rally whit the justy ?

next year i dont think we will do the full canadian championship...instead we would like to do some "exotic" rally...like maybe drving down to mexico ...nevada or california...Pacific forest......make a exchange whit a euro team...less rally...but more exotic ones....

any suggestion ? will mexico be a WRC next year ?i yes is there otter interesting rally down there ?
Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/
 

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straight at T
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>Interesting tip's thank very much.
>
>STPR is not to far from our place...it would of been
>nice...but at 750$ "US"....we mite waith a couples of year

>...doz all pros SCCA rally cost that much ?

Yes - they are all significantly more expensive than Canadian events.

STPR is a wonderful rally. To run on roads in the same area, the Sawmill ClubRally is an option (although it is only a week and a half away...).

>i dont know how it work whit the scca.....pros rally and
>club rally ?
>ok...i see the diference...i guess it like national and
>regional for us in Canada ?

Exactly.

> i have my national licence....and we will do most of the
>national event..... will i be abble to register in a Pros
>rally whit the justy ?

Yes, because it meets CARS Production rules it is eligible to run in Production in SCCA events.

>next year i dont think we will do the full canadian
>championship...instead we would like to do some "exotic"
>rally...like maybe drving down to mexico ...nevada or
>california...Pacific forest......make a exchange whit a euro
>team...less rally...but more exotic ones....

Try to do STPR at least once (preferably in something with some power - I think the Justy would be at a disadvantage on the smooth, fast roads at STPR). Maine would be another option that is fairly close to you.

The Black River Stages ClubRally might be an option too, it is close (just east of Watertown NY) and a fair bit cheaper than a ProRally. It is 3 weeks after Defi, I believe. Other ClubRallies to look at would be Great North Woods in New Hampshire and Maine Winter.

>any suggestion ? will mexico be a WRC next year ?i yes is
>there otter interesting rally down there ?

The Cherokee Trails roads were fun the year I ran it.

Adrian
 

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Thanks Adrian!

"I think the Justy would be at a disadvantage"
:):+LOL...its a disadvantage on every stage that are more than 3k long...LOL.. but we just do it for fun...and to win our class .


if we get a fa$ter car...i don't think we could afford to go and do out side of Quebec rally's.... that's the biuty of the justy...:)


Alain Lavoie
24Rallyteam
http://www.abikeonline.com/24rallyteam/
 

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>"I think the Justy would be at a disadvantage"

The difference being in Canada there is a P1 class which you compete against cars with similar engine displacement as your Justy's. SCCA pretty much lumps CARS P1, P2, & P3 together into Production class. (P4 is PGT and a seperate class). So you'll be racing against P3 cars in your class.
 

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straight at T
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>so..its all the P's....in one....oky....

Plus, the SCCA P cars get to add a LSD.

Not only that, but the STPR roads benefit cars with lots of horsepower (unless its dusty...).

Adrian
 

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Sorry, Paul,
My mistake.
I misunderstood the CARS rule GCR 5 5.6 (e)
I thought it meant any licence from a foreign country.
On closer reading it must just mean an FIA licence.
I shouldn't read so much into the rule book. It got me into trouble at last year's GCFR and again at this year's.
As Adrian pointed out - just because a rule is there, it doesn't necessarily have to be obeyed.
Cheers.
Peter
 

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Peter,

Now I see where you got that idea.

GCR 5.6(e) "Canadians must hold a license issued by CARS. Canadians may only hold licenses issued by ASN's of other countries after receiving written authorization to do so from the ASN for Canada."

First of all, SCCA isn't the ASN for the United States, ACCUS is, so you're OK unless you need an international license.

Furthermore, scroll way back to GCR 1.8, "These GCR's ... shall govern all Performance Rallies sanctioned by CARS." The CARS GCR's don't (and can't) govern what you do in the US, at an SCCA event.

GCR 5.6(e) is there more for information, so that you know that if you apply to a foreign ASN, they will require written authorization from the ASN for Canada.
 

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er um ahhh, i dont thin so

just to be super nit-picky

it is not correct in the eyes of the FIA (and hence CARS via ASN Canada FIA and hence SCCA via ACCUS) to have 2 licenses simlutaneously from ANY country (ie. one from Canada one from the USA). I am not saying people dont do it, and I wont delve into it here, and I am not into arguing about SCCA vs ACUS vs FIA vs anything. It is all the same boat when you get down to it.

As per the rules (as written but perhaps not as interpreted)

get a Canadian CARS license and DO NOT GET an SCCA rally license, get an SCCA crew membership. It saves you money and is the right way to do it. As I said in my ealier post, the rulebook is actually vague on this probably particularily since most people are vague on it.

if you did get the SCCA license, like a lot of people do, no one might ever bug you, and some people may tell you you need it, but they are all wrong.

to be more precise, and as a great example, i once had to do a rally overseas, a non-international event. So I had to get a local license. So I had to rescind my 'home' license. Guess what, i had 2 to choose from to rescind. you can see where this is all going.

-pat
 
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