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I managed to steal my car from a guy who pretty much had no idea what he had for incredibly cheap. Full logbooked cage, one sparco seat, decent suspension, etc. It still took another couple grand to get it up to current specs with another seat, new harnesses, fire extinguishers, triangles, spill kit, and my own personal safety equipment (which going "cheap" will still come in around $1600-2000 just for personal equipment).

I have put another $5k or so into suspension, new engine, new trans, spares, damage repair after I crashed it in my first rally, etc.

Now having bought my first car, I am looking forward to building myself one from the ground up with what I have learned is necessary, while still campaigning my current Legacy until the new car is finished. Then turn around and sell that leggy to a first-timer.
 

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The really cheap way is to buy someone else's used rally car with all of that stuff already done. A decent roll cage alone will cost $2500-3000. I've seen complete rally cars sold for $3000.
Thats what I was getting at. I was just trying to see if anyone actually builds rally cars to then sell to others (vs just to race themselves). Maybe thats a business opportunity for someone. Like m-sport does, but on the cheap level. Even if its just something to get through one race or a rallycross.
 

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Thats what I was getting at. I was just trying to see if anyone actually builds rally cars to then sell to others (vs just to race themselves). Maybe thats a business opportunity for someone. Like m-sport does, but on the cheap level. Even if its just something to get through one race or a rallycross.
sure - call up Vermont Sports Car and ask them to build you a car.

Anyone who's building a car specifically to sell is going to charge an amount that makes their time and effort worthwhile. That's not going to be under $5k for even a half-finished car. As a bare minimum example (assuming that you're paying the "standard" rate, not a buddy deal):
Some junker car off craigslist: $200
Bare minimum cage: $2000
2x Sparco Sprint or similar: $600
2x latch-link 5pt harnesses: $140

Right there, just a caged car with the minimum safety gear (not counting your own suit, helmet, H&N), is nearly $3k.
How long is that $200 car going to run when driven in anger?
How well is the likely 20-year old suspension going to hold up?
Are you ok with not being able to actually hear your co-driver?
My WAG for a low shop rate - $50/hr.
How many hours is the shop going to spend tuning that POS car up to run well?
How many hours is the shop going to spend putting together a reasonable skid plate?
Don't forget tires too! Even if you just buy a brand new set of snows, you'll be spending $200 there too.

On the other hand, used race cars sell for pennies on the dollar when compared to the cost of paying someone to build it. Many car owners eventually realize that the $10k+ that they spent having the car built is just a sunk cost, and their options are to either have it sit around and take up space, or sell it at a loss - but at that point any money in the pocket is better than a car taking up space.

Cars under the $5k mark do pop up from time to time on the classifieds here. They're not common, but they're out there. I see two posted within the last two months - yes, they're all the way up in Canada, but you did see the part where I said they're not common, right? Many of these cars will need additional work to really get them rally-worthy. There certainly have been rally-worthy cars sold for under $5k, but those are very rare.
 

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It's not the cost of materials that is the problem. It takes a LOT of labor to get a car ready to race. From stripping the interior, fixing up blown suspension bits, welding a cage. Even just doing it yourself is incredibly taxing. Let alone expecting someone else to do it for next to nothing. Can't even count the number of hours I have spent on my car. Makes me shudder thinking how much it would have been if I was paying someone even minimum wage to do all the work for me.

*EDIT* Beaten to the punch by bop
 

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Dramamine is for DramaQueens
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By cheap I mean, less than $5000. Heck, less than $3000. I was just curious if there is anyone out there who is specializing in buying $500 used cars in decent condition, adding the saftey mods, and then selling it to people who want a low cost of entry into rally.
Nine-years ago I did the bare minumum on a 'beater' car and spent over $6,000 on prep, but had free seats, free intercom and already had an odo. That didn't include personal safety gear. The $6K doesn't include anything to cover the hours on hours of sweat equity. After one event in the car I sold it - to a friend - for what I had into it ($8K including the cost of the car), but that is pretty rare.

In short, if you think it is reasonable to find a minimally built, ready to rally, fresh built 'beater' rally car for undeer $5k - your expectations for the sport are unrealistic. (This can be seen in some of your other comments as well.)
 

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Nine-years ago I did the bare minumum on a 'beater' car and spent over $6,000 on prep, but had free seats, free intercom and already had an odo. That didn't include personal safety gear. The $6K doesn't include anything to cover the hours on hours of sweat equity. After one event in the car I sold it - to a friend - for what I had into it ($8K including the cost of the car), but that is pretty rare.

In short, if you think it is reasonable to find a minimally built, ready to rally, fresh built 'beater' rally car for undeer $5k - your expectations for the sport are unrealistic. (This can be seen in some of your other comments as well.)
No need to be a jerk about it.
 

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No need to be a jerk about it.
He wasn't being a jerk at all. A LOT of people underestimate the cost of auto racing on this "level". This is not a cheap sport at all. Even once you have made that initial plunge doing a single event will still cost anywhere between $1500-2000 a weekend.... minimum.
 

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Sorry if you took it as 'being a jerk' about it.
I didn't intend to be, I was just trying to being clear and frank.
"your expectations for the sport are unrealistic. (This can be seen in some of your other comments as well.)"

seems a bit unnecesary to me. A simple answer to my questions without the personal commentary would have been sufficient.
 

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He wasn't being a jerk at all. A LOT of people underestimate the cost of auto racing on this "level". This is not a cheap sport at all. Even once you have made that initial plunge doing a single event will still cost anywhere between $1500-2000 a weekend.... minimum.
Thats fine. Im not here to argue the point. Im just asking questions.
 

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When i first built my car i was at $4700 to get out on stage. and $900 for 6 new tires (could have bought used ones for $150 ish had i known who to ask)

I think you could get out onto the stages for $3500 building it yourself, assuming you already own the donor car, assuming you can do all the metal work / fab yourself, and going out on stock suspension , rims, and Used rally tires.

It will be Fun, but not competitive at all, And you'll need to pick a gentle rally since you'll be on stock suspension.

If you are looking at getting into rally from a Co$t perspective , The only answer is to buy an already built car.


oh and BTW , Grant Huhges is the only person i know who is setup to make a 'super cheap budget build rally car' and i think his delivered price for a rally ready (1.8 or 2.2 awd imp) I don't really want to write a price, because i don't recall what he's asking, but i know its super reasonable.
and it comes with good skids, great club level suspension, and a very good cage. IIRC its less than I've seen some open light cars go for though

If you're serious about wanting to buy a car, call him up.

And no one is being a jerk, they are just telling you "how it is" Yes in doing so it may be squashing your dreams of how cheap a car could be.. but its called a reality check (not someone being mean) ... That said I've heard of a Datson 510, log booked, for $1800. Call me if you're interested and i'll help you track it down. its in california
 

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Production is NOT necessarily cheap. Many have described production as more expensive than modified Open class Group 2 cars because of the need to only use "production parts. A lot of the parts necessary to be a legal production car are more expensive than aftermarket parts that are more readily available.
Don't get me started again on my "why Production should be ditched and P-Stock-like rules adopted" rant.

Production is NOT cheap. Neither is Group 2.
 

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FWIW, I did some calculations last fall and figured I could put together a P-Stock Mk2 or Mk3 Golf for about $4500, if I built the cage myself and used the cheapest safety gear I could find.

That's with the stock engine, stock gearbox, junkyard R&P, open diff, Bilsteins, Sparco Sprint, G-Force harness, homebuilt odo, and homebuilt intercom.

But I sorta know my way around Golfs. And electronics.
 

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seems a bit unnecesary to me. A simple answer to my questions without the personal commentary would have been sufficient.
I do owe you an apology. I had actually confused you with someone else who was making comments about how the sport needs to be cheaper. That said, I stand behind my position that you need to re-evaluate your expectations of the sport.
 

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When i first built my car i was at $4700 to get out on stage. and $900 for 6 new tires (could have bought used ones for $150 ish had i known who to ask)

I think you could get out onto the stages for $3500 building it yourself, assuming you already own the donor car, assuming you can do all the metal work / fab yourself, and going out on stock suspension , rims, and Used rally tires.

It will be Fun, but not competitive at all, And you'll need to pick a gentle rally since you'll be on stock suspension.

If you are looking at getting into rally from a Co$t perspective , The only answer is to buy an already built car.


oh and BTW , Grant Huhges is the only person i know who is setup to make a 'super cheap budget build rally car' and i think his delivered price for a rally ready (1.8 or 2.2 awd imp) I don't really want to write a price, because i don't recall what he's asking, but i know its super reasonable.
and it comes with good skids, great club level suspension, and a very good cage. IIRC its less than I've seen some open light cars go for though

If you're serious about wanting to buy a car, call him up.

And no one is being a jerk, they are just telling you "how it is" Yes in doing so it may be squashing your dreams of how cheap a car could be.. but its called a reality check (not someone being mean) ... That said I've heard of a Datson 510, log booked, for $1800. Call me if you're interested and i'll help you track it down. its in california
I was just referring to comment about my expectations. Im not looking for opinions, just facts.
 

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I do owe you an apology. I had actually confused you with someone else who was making comments about how the sport needs to be cheaper. That said, I stand behind my position that you need to re-evaluate your expectations of the sport.
Its a free forum of course and I am a cynical ahole. Its just irrelevant to the topic. All I wanted to know was where else to monitor for deals, or if anyone out there was custom modifying cars. You see it a lot with classic cars, where someone goes out and finds a deal, fixes it and sells it. Flipping cars basically. Seemed like something that could be done with rally cars.
 

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okie dokie. facts are I got onto stage for less than $5K , yet there's a log booked car for sale for $1800. 3 of my close friends just took the plunge into rally ...
Nick bought a car for $4,000 which is starting off faster and better preped than my car started, But he has some issues to sort (brakes + radiator)
Tucker boutht a car for twice that , Super super nice prep and its ready to rally right now!
Jason is building a car , his donar is worth $6500 and he probably spent $1,000 for the cage stuff (metal, bender, die) he already has a welder and lots of experience. think he spent $800 on Rims and is rocking some used rally tires .

:) There's also no right answer to build/buy . sure buying is cheaper but you may be buying someone elses failed project riddled with problems. or you might get a huge score. if you like building / wrenching the enjoyment of making your own car, the sastifaction of taking the starting line on a car you've bled over is quite the feeling. Also intimately knowing every little issue (and fix) on Your car is a performance benefit.

there will be a "what's right for YOU?" answer, but it can't be found on a forum, only in a mirror.

I hope you find a route that get you into a car, and on stage. Its really fun :) and we need more rallyists of any type (driver,navigator,crew,organizer,volunteer, Photog, promoter) etc
 

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Where would someone go to find cheaper rally cars for sale? Something you might see in Production category (thats cheapest and slowest i gather?) The classifieds here seem to be more expensive cars. Is there any business out there that builds cheap rally cars in the US?
Buy this: http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/show-ad/?id=447

Go race.

It's about a cheap of a price point to entry as anything out there. I drive past this car every day on the way to work.
 
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