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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From this thread here:

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID40/86.html

I read: "I heard from Bruce W. at the newbie class (held at LSPR) that new drivers will be required to drive P or G2 cars and finish a certain number of rallies before they move on."

Bruce, can you comment more on this? Misunderstood or correct? Just a plan? For sure going to happen? Thanks!
 

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There will be a Competitor Bulletin shortly that will outline the new licensing requirements. They will include car limitations on novices and a driver logbook, to be used much like the car's logbook.

If you're prepping a car to begin rallying in 2005, you need to read this Competitor Bulletin before going much further.

Now you know what I know. I knew such things were being considered, and I asked for enough detail to give the newbies at LSPR a heads-up.

Bruce
 

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Well for the sake of the 7 guys who I have helped build cars for, 4 of which are on my lot, all but one of whom have yet to enter a stage rally, I'll ask for them:
Could you share what you _do_ know, rather than merely allude to it?



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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Bruce,

Just for the purposes of a little clarity, then these proposed restrictions would be a Rally America initiative and would only apply to RA sanctioned events, correct?

Kent Gardam
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I didn't want to go into more detail until I got a little confirmation, but this is what I was told (now that we are talking about it as a reality):

License holders will get a logbook with their license. The event steward can note negative things that you do at a rally and if you get too many, you could lose your license.

New drivers get a "Novice" license and must complete 9 coefficients to get a "Provisional" license. Then they must complete another 9 to get a "Regular" license.

"Novice" drivers stay in seed 8. "Provisional" drivers advance in seed like a regular driver. "Novice" and "Provisional" drivers are limited to P and G2 cars.

Accurate? Misinformed?

Meow, the cat is out of the bag.
 

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>From this thread here:
>
>http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID40/86.html
>
>I read: "I heard from Bruce W. at the newbie class (held at
>LSPR) that new drivers will be required to drive P or G2
>cars and finish a certain number of rallies before they move
>on."


Dear God!!! I hope this is just some silly speculation, and that before any "newbie" rules are implemented the proposed rules will be carefully scrutinized by people who DO NOT have some underlying agenda.

I started with a Porsche 911 in the 70's and was a middle packer. Then I ran a box stock '77 Z-28 (no suspension, no bash pan, etc) and was running up front in divisionals on street rubber.

Most recently: I ran a stock 88 RX-7 with almost full interior, A/C, etc. With the cage and heavy duty bash pan the car weighed in at over 3,000 lbs, with a little more than 100 hp. For safety (not performance) reasons I moved the front mounted battery into the passenger compartment. The battery move automatically put me into Group 5 due to the idiotic "rotory factor" nonsense.

I hope people think before they leap into more useless "feel good" safety rules that will have absolutely NO beneficial effects related to safety.

Jens Larsen
Flying Kiwi Racing
 

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Thanks, Jim
nice to know the Mid-west underground telegraph is still working, and that discussions proceeded to draft stage with so much input.

Also it's quite a relief to know that boys if they have a budget can run out and buy a 196bhp P car, or have me build them a
240 bhp, 2100lb Gp2 car.

Such a shame that all the Xratty buys with their whopping 175 bhp cars are suddenly useless.
Maybe if they ever worked on their cars and entered an event last year they'd be all set.

And very confidence inspiring to see the openess to ideas displayed in all the discussions and adoption of this.



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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>Also it's quite a relief to know that boys if they have a
>budget can run out and buy a 196bhp P car, or have me build
>them a 240 bhp, 2100lb Gp2 car.


A "newbie" with cubic dollars can afford a lot more than 60 hp per cylinder.
 

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>>Also it's quite a relief to know that boys if they have a
>>budget can run out and buy a 196bhp P car, or have me build
>>them a 240 bhp, 2100lb Gp2 car.
>
>
>A "newbie" with cubic dollars can afford a lot more than 60
>hp per cylinder.

Jens,
stay on message.
It's just an example, the point is that its easy to make a Gp2 car with more bhp than the average WRX has at the wheels, 1000 lbs lighter and with shorter gearing, for a total package that is potentially as quick.
And the _point_ was in the second half, the half about obsoleteing some cars clogging my shop driveway.

And the nature of the discussions and adoptions of rules.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
Vive Le Groupe F!
 

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It's not my intention to turn away anyone.

There will be provisions for some cars, not P or G2 legal, to be used for novices. These may include restrictors and or other limits. For example a mazda rotary NA, with stock porting and induction (similar to ITA or ITS road race) would be considered by me to be an acceptable novice car, but not legal in G2 or P.

At some point in the future, however, the standards must become more objective.

These are my opinions, which might not count for much after Dec 31.

Mike Hurst
CRSM
 

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Bruce also said in the novice meeting cars that had been built or a large investment had been made already would be taken on a case by case basis. So I don't think cars built for this year and not raced, or in the process of being built are really in danger of being left to the scrapyard or having to be sold off by their owners. I think they will be looking at all new entries with more scrutiny, but I wouldn't relegate cars to P, G2, etc. I'd ask for estimated horsepower/torque ratings as well as gear weight/ratios/lsds, etc. and start restricting those.
 

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>Hmmm...
>
>I wonder how many new club level guys preparing PGT, G5 and
>open cars just had an aneurysm? [/b]

I know I did... just realized I've been pissing thousands of dollars away and now need to spend MORE money to drive a car I have no interest in driving just so I can, eventually, if I don't run out of funding driving my "bast-ard" car so I can eventually drive my PGT car.

And at a grand total of TWO maybe THREE rallies a year here, I will be able to actually compete with my REAL car in about... 18 divided by 3...

SIX YEARS FROM NOW!!!!

Death of Club Rally? You decide.

Scott - Wanna be PGT Celica All Trac Driver but never will because of the G2 for years Money Pit I've just got tossed in - Kovalik
 

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A couple points:

1. This is a good thing. Sure it will screw a few guys, but in the long run it will make the sport safer.

2. If I was selling insurance, this would look good to me.

3. This is commonplace in a lotsa other parts of the world.

4. And if you still think you're getting screwed, every open class driver is getting a 34mm restrictor that will simultaneously slow our cars down AND jack costs. We're taking one for the team, so can you.

Dennis Martin
[email protected]
920-432-4845
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
>Thanks, Jim
>nice to know the Mid-west underground telegraph is still
>working, and that discussions proceeded to draft stage with
>so much input.

I'm not sure if this decision was made before the SCCA dumped rally or after, so don't jump to conclusions just yet. It is part of the 2005 SCCA Rulebook after all, which RA was going to adopt.
 

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>Scott - Wanna be PGT Celica All Trac Driver but never will
>because of the G2 for years Money Pit I've just got tossed
>in - Kovalik


Everyone like you is expendable. After all, there is all the "new blood" waiting in the wings to drive their spec racer, drifter, rice-burner cars in weatherproof lighted stadiums that people keep promising will save "rally" because of all the TV coverage.
 

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Since 1977 I have only DNF'd 2 times (both for non-safety related mechanical failures that were not terminal, but for which I decided not to continue). I have never crashed. Why should I, or anyone else, be screwed because the fire-breathing, AWD, "red mist" people keep crashing and and some dying?

I was seed 4 in the 70's and seed 6 most recently. If I ever rally again will I be seed 22 and have to drive a lawnmower?
 

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>I'm not sure if this decision was made before the SCCA
>dumped rally or after,

Before, at least before I knew of SCCA dumping rally , don't know when that decision was actually made.


so don't jump to conclusions just
>yet. It is part of the 2005 SCCA Rulebook after all, which
>RA was going to adopt.

A safety item, not part of the 2005 rulebook, which was done earlier.

I'll take the heat for this one, it's a common sense measure that should have been done long ago.

By the way, will someone tell me what my hidden agenda is?, I've heard everyone else has one, and I'm jealous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
>By the way, will someone tell me what my hidden agenda is?,
>I've heard everyone else has one, and I'm jealous.

If we could tell you that, it wouldn't be hidden now would it? :+
 
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