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For those of you who think you are too cool for rules, or are just really stupid...

The Oregon Trail Rally was held this summer in the midst of a major forest fire hazard time. We had to jump through some rather arduous hoops (and spend a lot of money) to make sure the rally happened at all.

Our web site warned spectators not to smoke in the woods. Our spectator instructions warned spectators not to smoke in the woods. We had no smoking signs posted. Specator marshals were instructed to address anybody who was smoking. In short, there was to be no smoking!

However, some jackasses decided that they had to have their smokes. As a result, the landowner on whose property a stage was run has decided not to allow our rally to return to any of their roads. This was a landowner with whom we wanted good relations in the hope of obtaining more roads in the future; we started with one road, and hoped to increase the access in the future.

The smoking was not the only issue, but it was the first one listed in their letter, which to me means it was the foremost one in their mind.

So, if you are spectating, or even marshaling, think about what you are doing. DO NOT SMOKE IN THE WOODS!! How many times do we have to tell you?

Yes I'm pissed. It's not easy to get or retain roads.

Ben Bradley
Chairman
Oregon Trail ProRally

(edited to get the counter counting, no textual changes)
 

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Hi Ben,

Sorry to hear the owner won't let you come back, It's the last thing you need to deal with and hopefully something better to replace it with will come along.

We were spectating on stage 10 Sunday and ran into a fellow who, despite all the notices posted, insisted on smoking. He said if he was standing on the dirt road he wasn't technically in the woods, um.. duh? It took a number of us ganging up on him to convince him he shouldn't smoke where he was though we suspect he just walked down the road to light up.

'Not sure what part of 'in the woods' he didn't get but someday he will find himself on a lonely dirt road surrounded by trees and realize that he has lost his way in the woods, with luck and lack of cigarettes, maybe the flying monkeys will get him. It often takes time but it's true - what goes around, comes around.

You did a great job Ben, always remember that.
thank you for you time and energy.
Cat
 

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RE: Behavior at Spectator Areas- WW

Ben, sorry to hear, that really sucks!
All those roads were fun, it's a shame one person could lose them for everyone.

>The Oregon Trail Rally was held this summer in the midst of
>a major forest fire hazard time. We had to jump through
>some rather arduous hoops (and spend a lot of money) to make
>sure the rally happened at all.

While on this subject, let me hijack your thread for a moment to remind others that these same conditions (fire danger and landowner requirements) exist for Wild West in September, too.

>So, if you are spectating, or even marshaling, think about
>what you are doing. DO NOT SMOKE IN THE WOODS!! How many
>times do we have to tell you?

Please, NO SMOKING during Wild West.
NO SMOKING in the woods.
NO SMOKING at spectator areas.
NO SMOKING on logging roads.
NO SMOKING, PERIOD!!!
Is that enough times?

Thanks,
Rick
 

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RE: Behavior at Spectator Areas- WW

If anyone knows who this clown is (no, that's giving clowns a bad name), let's name names so that others are aware, and pass it on to the landowner for his action if he wants to pursue it. I do sell some excellent fire extinguishers that can easily be carried, even by youngsters, to prevent these addicts from ruining our events.Ben, don't give up yet, these are very reasonable people and I'm sure that as a result of this incident, I'm sure your politicians hat on, will be able to turn him around. Good luck, you have all our support.
 

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RE: Behavior at Spectator Areas- WW

I don't think it was only 1 "CLOWN" it was probably few people.
It is a problem you will face no matter what you do. People will brake rules, no matter what event, or sanctioning body, there will always be a jackass or group of, that will ruin things for everyone else.

Sorry to hear the bad news Ben, hopefully you can find a way to run a rally up there.

-george
 

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RE: Behavior at Spectator Areas- WW

Bummer! I really enjoyed OT's roads.

Ben, you put on an awesome event for such a tough weekend, and I'm sorry to hear we've lost some privelidges of property use. Sadly, you can't control everyone's actions.

Well good luck for next year, you're a fantastic organizer!

If you want a bunch of us NW guys to go send letters to the land owner or something, I'm sure we could figure some sort of politiking out... }>
 

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Ben, sorry to hear that some jackass with a drug addiction (I don't care if the law doesn't seem to think so, the law, in this case, is an ass) has fouled things up for you.

As I see it those people have committed two crimes, smoking out there, and littering out there!

To once again hijack your thread, in case anyone hasn't been paying attention, it hasn't rained much in Minnesota for a few weeks. The Humidity has been high, which reduces the threat of fire in the woods, but there is a good chance that in another week, the forest service may be indicating "High" fire threats. If that happens it would darn stupid to be smoking out there.

If you gotta have hit that bad, get some gum...

JBLewis
 

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RE: Behavior at Spectator Areas- WW

Ben, I agree with Chris's comments. If you would like to get a petition up on a web site, regardless of where we are based or where we rally. I'm sure that you would have a 100% response favouring continuing using your great roads. Never driven them (yet) but heard great things. Get it up there, you have our full support.
 

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In this case it ain't a matter of need or want... That fact remains that we must deal with them and continue to be prepared to deal with them!

A parade of muddy, sometimes loud cars, is going to attract attention no matter hard we try to keep the secret.

JB
 

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Well to play devils advocate here: Good spectators help to further the interest in the sport and in time will hopefully make it easier to open more roads and hold more events. This is also a big commercial market for people who see rallies, then want to start the sport, or buy similiar cars to what they see etc. those being the positive things to spectators. Of course there are always the idiots out there who cause problems, or go away with a negative experience. Unfortunately, until we come across a million acres of secured land with perfect rally roads and the great wall of china surrounding, I suspect there will always be spectators.

Seth S

>Would someone tell me again why we "NEED" spectators.
>Especially at the ClubRally level.
>Richard Miller
 

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ban all smoking. everywhere. seriously. I can not stand it. most people are offended by it. I get very irritated when I am driving behind some dolt who taps his ashes out the window and then tosses his butt out the window.
but then again, they look so COOL smoking.
yes I know, this is not exactly on topic. but it is a pet peeve of mine.
 

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>Would someone tell me again why we "NEED" spectators.
>Especially at the ClubRally level.
>Richard Miller


(Below kinda reads like I'm pissed but I mean it in the most polite way)

Maybe YOU don't need spectators but I think rally does. There are far more club rallies than pro, and they can reach a much larger audience thus exposing more people to rally. Sure there are a ton more people spectating at national events but wouldn't you think the more the merrier? Then US rally should grow, and thats a good thing right? I know the first time I was exposed to rally was at a club event (with the exception of some british F2 tapes) and I am pretty sure that I am not the only one in this camp.
-matt
 

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Perhaps rally does need spectators. As does race. In the past most sports car races were spectator events with much effort put into attracting the spectators. Here in Texas, we always get many new members when we have a spectator event such at TransAm or even ALMS. But they seldom stick around unless they find something to do besides spectate. As an organizer, I will start including more spectator provisions when I have enough competitors to pay for it. Or a sponsor.
Richard Miller
 

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Let everyone know that if they're smoking, we'll assume they are on fire and take appropriate action.

It'll only take one (maybe two) people getting doused by the fire extinguisher to convince the rest of the people we mean business; plus, it'll be fun for the marshalls! :)

KT
 

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Ben,
Not critising but wondering alound, and fully aware of the problems you guys have had getting and retaining roads in the past so I know any loss must be a pisser, but what does a land owner expect you to do re smoking MORE than what you have done.
What realisticly could you do?
People _are_ addicted to cigarettes, and yes many smokers are inconsiderate, and many are just asleep at the weel about their effect on their surroundings.
But short of the brilliant suggestion hinted at in Richard Millers note post Sawmill, pre STPR about the fact that Sherriffs will be there and they are armed (an implied statement about the use or threat of lethal force whether Richard understands that what he was suggesting or not) about arresting or my equally brillianrt suggestion to deputise all workers and arm them, what could you do?

If the land owner was that rigid, then you would have bumped against some other thing soon enough.

What were some of the other things, in general if you could share?
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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I had to ask at least one person to stop smoking at one of the Saturday stages. They had walked off down one of the side roads and were stood in the middle of the road. Even so, I made them put it out and take the but with them.

Unfortunately, it's not something a handful of marshals can control when you have a large group and they are there for many hours of waiting. Despite the efforts of the marshals, and many of the spectators, we only pushed the problem deeper into the woods.

Considering the number of people at the spectator area, and the extended hours with nothing to do, the spectators were very well behaved. Losing the stage has probably come down to just one or two people who think the rules don't apply to them.
 
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