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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You guys know that my spiritual preference on cars is somewhere in the 1963-73 range. But I just re-watched a Walter Rohrl video and Climb Dance with Ari Vantanen about the Pikes Peak specials (my firm just put a huge LCD monitor in front of me. What's a boy to do?). I'm not a big GpB fan but these Pikes cars? Wow. UN-BE-LIEVABLE. Vantanen appears to have a problem that the engine goes from 1000rpm to redline apparently without any resistance - it's like the car's in neutral. You can see the huge boost guage on the dash immediately go full 180 degrees every time he hits the throttle, and that corresponds with the car going right through the gear. Over 600hp on gravel. It's obvious that there's just not enough traction - only when the aerodynamics kick in is there any more grip. Do you think we'll ever see a bellowing, snarling, spitting, devilish car that that again? I doubt it.

In other news someone told me that there was a 1973 ex-works Alpine on a TSD rally in Ontario this past weekend. He's going to try to get the owner's name. Any idea of this car's providence? Left here after a rally....?

Edit: looking at photos from http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/StLAC_1000Islands_2003.html now. Stickers appear correct but there's too much carpeting! Thoughts on it being a genuine period car?

http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000461.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000482.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000466.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000464.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000463.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/kchamm/IM000468.jpg

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics. But not so flirty as Vantanen.
 

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>
>In other news someone told me that there was a 1973 ex-works
>Alpine on a TSD rally in Ontario this past weekend. He's
>going to try to get the owner's name. Any idea of this car's
>providence? Left here after a rally....?



I vaguely remember that Randy Graves (?) bought one of the works Alpines after the 1974 POR/Rideau Lakes.

http://www.rallyalmanac.com/item.asp?recordid=renault&pagestyle=default
 

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3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
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Gone forever ...

That ole Lada driver said:
>You guys know that my spiritual preference on cars is
>somewhere in the 1963-73 range. But I just re-watched a
>Walter Rohrl video and Climb Dance with Ari Vantanen about
>the Pikes Peak specials (my firm just put a huge LCD monitor
>in front of me. What's a boy to do?). I'm not a big GpB fan
>but these Pikes cars? Wow. UN-BE-LIEVABLE. Vantanen appears
>to have a problem that the engine goes from 1000rpm to
>redline apparently without any resistance - it's like the
>car's in neutral. You can see the huge boost guage on the
>dash immediately go full 180 degrees every time he hits the
>throttle, and that corresponds with the car going right
>through the gear. Over 600hp on gravel. It's obvious that
>there's just not enough traction - only when the
>aerodynamics kick in is there any more grip. Do you think
>we'll ever see a bellowing, snarling, spitting, devilish car
>that that again? I doubt it.

Naw. And even if we did they'll never find anyone to tame the beasts the way the Rohrls, Vatanens, Blomquists, Mikkolas, Alens, etc. of the era did. GrpB was a once in a lifetime experience where the state of the art in brutishly-powered cars was attained as the drivers, who honed their craft in sync with all those early-day mechanical developments, reached their peak. Thanks to that they were able to handle those awesome machines (at least most of the time).

There will only ever be one Walter Rohrl and I'm proud to have been on the hill during his only appearance there. Add to the mix that year Ari Vatanen, Andrea Zanussi, Shekhar & Yvonne Mehta, Jean Todt, Jochi Kleindt, Rodney Millen, Allesandrandro Allesandreini and a few mere mortal Yanks and you have a week a rally fan would die for - the only time in my life I ever asked for an autograph. Being paid to be there and bringing a Chief Mechanic trophy home was just about too much.

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/rohrl.jpg

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/vatanen.jpg

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/PPIHC/87PPIHC.htm

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com
 

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>Do you think
>we'll ever see a bellowing, snarling, spitting, devilish car
>that that again? I doubt it.

I saw an Italian rally mag that seemed to show (my Italian is basically non-existant) that a number of Lancia Delta S4s are still used for hillclimbs/rallysprints in Italy.

Likewise, there are still Metro 6R4s running in the UK (something to do with British Leyland homologating 200 rally-prepared cars rather than 200 street cars like the other manufacturers).

>In other news someone told me that there was a 1973 ex-works
>Alpine on a TSD rally in Ontario this past weekend. He's
>going to try to get the owner's name. Any idea of this car's
>providence? Left here after a rally....?

I assume Walt Kammer still has his Alpine?

Adrian
 

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I would truely love to see one of the rally manufacturers make an assault on the mountain.

Rod Millen's hillclimb Celica/tundra is really fairly simple if you can say that. 900-1200 hp or so. GTP gear box, carbon fiber everything.

No trick active diffs as I believe that they are all fairly simple mechanical units.

No active suspension.

Take a car like Millens, add in all the insanity of F1 active suspension technology, add active diffs and say a Honda or BMW derived 1.5L turbo engine....rated at 1500 hp or so.

But some stark raving man Finn's behind the wheel and destroy the 10 minute barrier :)

Brian
 

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Sorry to intrude, I wandered over here and saw this.
Being 50+ I feel it'd be OK to comment.
As far as never seeing their like again - (drivers not the cars)
It's fun to think that, and nice to idolize but as long as people want to go fast, it'll happen.
Will there be another John Glenn or Sterling Moss?
Well no, not exactly, but will there be a starstruck guy who deserves to but never wins the Championship? Happens every year. Some more heartbreaking than others.
The cars now are faster and more civilized than the grpB, except for Millen's truck as seen on the Goodwood show. That looked absolutely undriveable!
I'd take a shot at it and I'm sure there are younger guys who would too.
rz
 

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If there is anything I have learned in life, it is that time makes a legend grow. Someday, somewhere, someone will think back fondly on the days of the WRC cars too and think we'll never see such wonderful beasts again. Same for the drivers. Petter Solberg is almost a legend already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mmmm, I think it's true that an EVO RS lightweight will someday have status (maybe not as much as a 911RS, but something like that), and I know that a modern WRC car has better traction (and differential mapping etc) than a GpB car, but...

...watch Climb Dance. There is a really obvious difference between 600+ hp and the 300-odd of the modern WRC cars. Literally he punches the throttle and it immediately hits redline, and the bellowing noise can be heard for miles. That's a beastycar. I would not be afraid to drive a WRC car (except for the consequences of crashing it!) but I'd be a little nervous in a Pikes Peak car from the late 80s.

ACP
Flirting with the laws of physics.
 

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>...watch Climb Dance. There is a really obvious difference
>between 600+ hp and the 300-odd of the modern WRC cars.

I have many times, and I agree. I would also say Millen's truck as well as a few of the other modern day PP cars (Suzuki?) have that much, if not more, power. So, I would venture to guess that as long as we continue to want to go faster, there will always be something more extreme on the way. Not to knock on the Group B stuff, those are most of my favorite cars.
 

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In Walter Rohl's book he speaks of driving the 1-off prototype "Group S" Audi...for the year after Gp B....

Mid engined / 1800lbs or so (I think) / 1000 hp in racing trim.....

On a funny note he got pulled over by the German police and they wanted photos...because the car "didn't exist" he asked that they take no photos...

The police agreed only if "he gave the car everything it had" while leaving.

To this day if you drive back to that road you can see where the car litterly tore through the pavement.....

Not sure I'd make it back...but I'd take a shot with one of these cars :)

Brian "Flat over crest"
 
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