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Don't get married....don't have kids

income savings from those 2 things alone will be most people's racing budget per year
If it wasn't too late I'd hire you as my life coach LOL
 

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Yo I'm 18 and your in luck because I'm about to tell you all the things I wish I knew when I was 17

These people mean well but they have forgotten what its like to be 17 and the world has changed.

I have no results nor rally car, but was able to make at a low estimate $4000 so here it goes

First things first though you keep talking about cars but cars are useless especially at our age. Have you ever bought a car before? It will probably be a POS.

If you have a full workshop you can build a kart or something to get seat time but if you have a car and no tools when it breaks guess what you'll have to deal with your ex girlfriend laughing at you and your rallying dreams.

I have a car, a 2002 Chevy Cavalier. And its currently sitting in the driveway gathering rust because I have no tools to fix it. My income, really ALL INCOME requires me to at least get place to place so I'm kinda screwed.

I might commit suicide.

Don't be me.

Buy tools before you buy the car
BUY TOOLS BEFORE YOU BUY THE CAR
BEFORE NOT AFTER

First and foremost cars are tools. If they cant be used they aren't happy.

If you don't have tools you will have to take it to a shop. You cannot afford a shop.

So BUY TOOLS DANGIT

The girl I used to like banged my best friend and one of the reasons she thought I was lame was my POS car. If I had tools my car would not be a POS. She is a cow and my friend told me she got that loosey goose anyway so its NBD i dodged a bullet but think what if she had that good good???????

Do you want your crush to bang your best friend? No?

BUY TOOLS

On to the advice...

1. Don't move out of your house

Where do you think the money went? Not a rally car. It is just as hard as they say it I man, and if you don't believe me it will be worse for you.

2. Screw sponsorship

Ok so sponsors are hard to get and keep we all know that but the real reason I say screw sponsorships is because you are 17 and probably male. The people who accept or deny sponsorship proposals are usually at least in there 30s. Aka they are the establishment. The establishment hates youth, hates rally, and definitely hates them together. Just look at how much money is floating around rally America and you will see I speak the truth. Also the establishment LOVES money and your asking them to give it up. So like naaah brahhh

3. Jobs

Apply to as many places as you can, make a list of places you applied to and CALL EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM EVERY WEEK. Be as annoying as you can. Nobody is gonna say he really wants this job too much, were not hiring him. You want them to know your face when they pull up your application.

Nobody will call you back. You are 17. You are dirt. The establishment hates you remember? You have to make them feel your worth the investment and they wont think that unless they can run you into the ground and get the absolute max out of you. (Because you are dirt remember?) Putting in an application and doing nothing is not max effort.

4. Old Bastids (EASY MODE)

Old people are king kong dude. They will expect you to be Satan at first. But since you are 17 and dirt the bar for you is set low. As long as you show them your more of the Degrassi type teenager instead of Boys in da Hood, they will love you. They don't have much longer and don't understand inflation so they will over pay you. They also know what its like to be young so they don't mind over paying you when they do. Since they're old they will probably waaay overestimate how hard the work they have is. Its summer bro, pass out some fliers and sheeet.

Everyone wants a nice yard but nobody wants to put the work in.

5. Saving habits
The truth is its not that hard at all to make money at our ages its hard to keep it. Work on that. I'm an awful saver so I got nothing for you dude ask your parents or something. But I do know that if I could have only saved some of the money I received in my life I'd be rallying no problem. And I'm still not rallying. So this is a big one. Learn to say no. If you don't have the nut sack to say no to your friends you don't have the sack to keep a rally car flat out through a 5- over a crest.

Hit me up on facebook search Yengi Lado I don't use fourms all that much if you want more advice. I'm the black kid, but my age on facebook might be kinda weird.

It would be nice to have more friends around my age into rally cars.

If you do all of this, you should have the funds to do what you wanna do. Now you just have to figure the rest out.

BTW theees another rally fourm called Rally Anarchy that has tons of good info. (Anarchists, this is my payback for not giving me used car advice muahahahahahahahaha you get more of us!!!!!!)
 

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It's only August 2nd, but I'm certain that LexusFman's post above will be the best post on this forum for the entire month.

Anders
 

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Why? What's wrong with what I said???
I'm not interested in spreading misinformation so let a homie know
The money you see spread around in RA as you put it, is mostly from people who stayed in school and make a lot of money outside of racing. Or we're really successful with a business etc. The point is education never hurts. There's a lot of regional competitors with engineering degrees. One they make enough money to light on fire in the woods at a regional competitor rate, and two they usually are hands on enough to repair/build the car which also saves money.

It's not the only way, but getting an education never hurt unless you forgo some massive startup opportunity to stay in school; which your odds of that are probably about the same as winning the lottery.



FYI, the 'sponsorship' dollars you think you see at RA events are pretty much a facade. Everyone likes to claim they have sponsors because they got some money off some parts, or they got a decent deal on something. Aside from Higgins, no one is rally'ing completely on sponsors dollars...

Also, a lot of those sponsors are peoples own businesses; which is obviously self funded. You'll see my business on the side of my car at the next race I do, but it's really just money coming out of my pocket. If I was making wise business decisions, sponsoring a rally car other than my own would probably be the worst advertising I can think of based on dollar return.
 

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The money you see spread around in RA as you put it, is mostly from people who stayed in school and make a lot of money outside of racing. Or we're really successful with a business etc. The point is education never hurts. There's a lot of regional competitors with engineering degrees. One they make enough money to light on fire in the woods at a regional competitor rate, and two they usually are hands on enough to repair/build the car which also saves money.

It's not the only way, but getting an education never hurt unless you forgo some massive startup opportunity to stay in school; which your odds of that are probably about the same as winning the lottery.



FYI, the 'sponsorship' dollars you think you see at RA events are pretty much a facade. Everyone likes to claim they have sponsors because they got some money off some parts, or they got a decent deal on something. Aside from Higgins, no one is rally'ing completely on sponsors dollars...

Also, a lot of those sponsors are peoples own businesses; which is obviously self funded. You'll see my business on the side of my car at the next race I do, but it's really just money coming out of my pocket. If I was making wise business decisions, sponsoring a rally car other than my own would probably be the worst advertising I can think of based on dollar return.
That was supposed to be my point man. The money floating around thing was a joke. Do you think I'm that broke I look up to starving rallyists as inspiration???? You'd be correct :p Theres not alot of sponsored rally drivers roaming around the world and exponentially fewer in the U.S. Perhaps the business is there to do it someday when you make it national with some creativity but it isn't something that can get you started racing. And it doesn't solve the problem of adult big wigs giving this kid the " ya know I used to shovel driveways when I was a kid" crap.

*talking straight out of my butt alert. Bench racing and useless kid talk follows. For discussion only. Would you listen to an 18 year old kid????????? Especially with no credentials???????

Sponsorship really should be a last resort for any race team. It puts them in a bad position. Make ROI for some soul less company or die. Race teams should be good at going fast not making cash.

It seems like I'm starting to see a pattern with alot of the pro racers and up and coming juniors that I follow in just about every series. The ones who do the whole PUT EVERY DIME INTO THE BIG LEAUGES MAKE IT BIG WOOO JWRC K&N PRO BUT MY PARENTS ARENT RICH SO I NEED $$$$ CREDIT DEBT energy up wasting there money in one season or less with mediocre results and either leave the sport completely or go all the way back to the club level without looking back.

The ones who don't try to outspend themselves and focus on going into series where they can hone there skills in relative isolation and THEN move to a bigger (Than the "ladder of opportunity" stuff at least) series with a real business plan and way to generate ROI end up kicking more butt and staying around longer.

Take the JWRC/WRC academy. Look at the winners. Craig Breen, Elfyn Evans, and Pontus Tidemand. Lets not count the Stephane LeFebvre dude as I don't know anything about him because I don't speak French.

Breen, Evans, and Tidemand all have close family who were rally drivers. Breen and Evans had rally drivers as fathers and Elfyn's dad was one of the judges for Pirelli Star Driver for pete's sake (Somebody please verify). Tidemand is a freaking Solberg for Christ sakes have you seen his uncle's car collection and the endless rally cars from beginner to WRC he has???

Tidemand especially was driving Super 2000 cars that almost definitely cost more for just the car than the whole JWRC/WRC academy thing costs for a whole season. Not even thinking about crew (Labor is the most expensive part of motorsports it seems, want an army of nerds to help you go fast? Better fork up $$$$), spares etc.

Elfyn Evans was competing at a high level in his national championship days.

The outlier of the group is Breen, he only had 2 years of rallying experience prior to doing the WRC academy BUT BUT BUT he was a national level karter (national karting is $$$$$$$$$$ think Danica Patrick) AND had a rally driver for a dad AND still had two full years of experience in a competitive championship in a competitive car before he took on the financial commitment of the WRC.

Those kids weren't up and coming racers PERHAPS with the exception of Breen but I addressed those issues above. They were already established names in motorsport before they decided to "move up a level" or whatever.
Sponsors are hard to get and exponentially harder to keep it seems so why even make the risk of basing your entire racing career on it if you aren't 100% sure it isn't gonna come to bite you?

Furthermore these junior series are just that, junior, and as such not as much thought is put into making a good fan experience or even media at all. They aren't designed for race teams to go in and make money they are driver development programs. Basically its rally driver university but with no financial aid package, scholarships and the like to help the comparatively disadvantaged get in dressed like a championship instead of an actual championship.
Everyone says go to college but people would change there tune if you were required to pay $150,000 up front no loans baller status.

It might sound depressing but theres a moral to the story I think. Focus on racing with what you have and BUILD UP resources until you can make it to the big leagues in a sustainable way so you don't go broke like Chris D did and don't have to leave as soon as you cant put up or shut up like Travis Pastrana did in NASCAR. Its hard to learn with people on your back that's one of the important things college taught me. (It also taught me many other things, before I dropped out that are useful and was worth the effort...)

Chris D had credit card companies on his back
Travis Pastrana had sponsors on his back.

Evans, Breen, and Tidemand were bangin sweedish broads and drinking booze legally while playing around on the side AND still managed to win. Lucky Europeans...

*****end booty talk alert
 

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My guess for LexuaFman is that instead of telling him to stay in school, we need to tell him to go back to school. :)
I will go back to school eventually but I need to do it in a way that is sustainable.
I went to college at like 15. I was not ready for it and now I have anxiety problems. I'm working on a smarter sustainable way to continue my education. College at 15 wasn't sustainable. That's why I moved out of my house, I need to live a little (and maaaaaybe try to rally I ain't givin up yet) first. That way I can go with no regrets or "I should be doing this first".

I see a pattern. Slow and steady wins the race. Hell Chris D's golf could have probably been described as slow and steady with his 115hp golf (slow) with good suspension and low weight (steady).

Heck even Vanlamdinghams beginner car choice, a Volvo 240, can be described this way with 160hp TURBO (Slow), and a what, 115 inch wheelbase was it (steady)???

But enough about the life theories of an 18 year old I'm pretty sure I've put plenty of annoying into this fourm already.
 

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The trick is to accept that motorsports is not supposed to be easily afforded or something that can be done without substantial resources, and rally is the ultimate embodiment of this idea.

Once you embrace that, you then need to determine how to best maximize your financial resources and time and then determine what other things that consume those resources and how valuable they are.

If your under 25, put every ounce of time and energy into getting a great job that pays good money and only allocate rally resources to saving, volunteering at events, and crewing for teams so you can learn the true costs of competition.

The sweet spot for competing and participating in rally is 25-30/35 and then 45/50+, basically, when you should be able to have a good job/income without necessarily having things like family or house payment to consume your resources (time and or money). Then from 30/35 through mid to late 40s is time to focus on the career, family, house, and what not. Once that is all established, if you are fortunate enough to be able to generate enough resources (again, money, but also time), its time to get back to competing again.

If your 17 or 18, this isn't what you want to hear, but its the truth. So if your in that age bracket, get a dirt bike or a rallycross beater for your racing fix and work your butt off, either in school or in getting started on a career path (just because people talk about education, doesn't mean everyone needs a bachelors/masters degree to be happy, the world needs electricians and plumbers just as much as it needs an engineer these days, both career paths are capable of generating enough income to compete/have a good life for people that are driven) and if that career path includes education, do everything possible to graduate with as little debt as possible (you can't imagine how much it sucks to make good money but have half of each check going to student loans).

Once you have the job and the income, then figure out what you can afford and set your competition goals that way, maybe its a year of saving and then a year of competing, maybe its 1 local and 1 tow away race, maybe to make it big and its 5+ events a year.

But realize this is only ever going to be a hobby for 99.9% of people in the world, maybe you can get lucky enough and someone will someday subsidize some of the cost for you, but probably not, so figure out how to support yourself in the sport, work towards that, then worry about the car.
 

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The trick is to accept that motorsports is not supposed to be easily afforded or something that can be done without substantial resources, and rally is the ultimate embodiment of this idea.

Once you embrace that, you then need to determine how to best maximize your financial resources and time and then determine what other things that consume those resources and how valuable they are.

If your under 25, put every ounce of time and energy into getting a great job that pays good money and only allocate rally resources to saving, volunteering at events, and crewing for teams so you can learn the true costs of competition.

The sweet spot for competing and participating in rally is 25-30/35 and then 45/50+, basically, when you should be able to have a good job/income without necessarily having things like family or house payment to consume your resources (time and or money). Then from 30/35 through mid to late 40s is time to focus on the career, family, house, and what not. Once that is all established, if you are fortunate enough to be able to generate enough resources (again, money, but also time), its time to get back to competing again.

If your 17 or 18, this isn't what you want to hear, but its the truth. So if your in that age bracket, get a dirt bike or a rallycross beater for your racing fix and work your butt off, either in school or in getting started on a career path (just because people talk about education, doesn't mean everyone needs a bachelors/masters degree to be happy, the world needs electricians and plumbers just as much as it needs an engineer these days, both career paths are capable of generating enough income to compete/have a good life for people that are driven) and if that career path includes education, do everything possible to graduate with as little debt as possible (you can't imagine how much it sucks to make good money but have half of each check going to student loans).

Once you have the job and the income, then figure out what you can afford and set your competition goals that way, maybe its a year of saving and then a year of competing, maybe its 1 local and 1 tow away race, maybe to make it big and its 5+ events a year.

But realize this is only ever going to be a hobby for 99.9% of people in the world, maybe you can get lucky enough and someone will someday subsidize some of the cost for you, but probably not, so figure out how to support yourself in the sport, work towards that, then worry about the car.
But do you expect kids to just give up?????
 

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But do you expect kids to just give up?????
No, just accept that you won't be able to afford to do it unless your parents are handing you large sums of dollars. You can volunteer, crew for teams, etc - but competing costs a lot. I don't expect an 18 year old to buy a condo in Manhattan either - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't aspire to it.
 

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But do you expect kids to just give up?????
No.

I expect kids to "grow up" and realize that life is hard, rally is harder, and you need to have a plan more than a want to.

Figure out what you want in life, then come up with an actual plan to obtain that, and put it into motion.

I got hooked on the sport when I was 16, but I figured out really quick that it costs real money, and that until I could be in a position to put real money towards it, my participation would not be as a driver.

If you don't want to wait, figure out a plan, a real plan, and put it into motion, but I think I laid out a pretty decent plan for you, you just don't like the timeline....
 

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No.

I expect kids to "grow up" and realize that life is hard, rally is harder, and you need to have a plan more than a want to.

Figure out what you want in life, then come up with an actual plan to obtain that, and put it into motion.

I got hooked on the sport when I was 16, but I figured out really quick that it costs real money, and that until I could be in a position to put real money towards it, my participation would not be as a driver.

If you don't want to wait, figure out a plan, a real plan, and put it into motion, but I think I laid out a pretty decent plan for you, you just don't like the timeline....
I don't hate your plan duuude. When I grow up and get a "stable job" and have no other commitments, rally wont be something that needs a plan it will just happen because I will have the resources and I wont have to eat broccoli.

Rallying at our age now is what requires a plan because we don't just have the resources to do it. I've heard it been said on this fourm that with almost any full time job, you should be able to rally in some fourm and now living on my own, I can look at the expenses I have and I can tell you now it can happen. Now the question is how do I make full time money at my age. And I don't think that's impossible. Moving out of my house taught me pretty much that there are alot of ways to make money if your willing to be creative.

As I said before ALOT of money has passed through my hands through the last 3 years. The question maybe isn't how to make more maybe its how to keep more.

I've had a real plan for a while. I'm in the middle of it. I'm not even at step 1. I'm more like at step 3 or 4.

Tell ya what when I hit the stages I'm driving to Colorado and callin you out. Showdown on the stages how about it.

And as I say this before I posted I went to my old workplace and guess what I never got my real last paycheck.

I'm one step closer

Be scared.

Be very scared.

 

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No.

I expect kids to "grow up" and realize that life is hard, rally is harder, and you need to have a plan more than a want to.

Figure out what you want in life, then come up with an actual plan to obtain that, and put it into motion.

I got hooked on the sport when I was 16, but I figured out really quick that it costs real money, and that until I could be in a position to put real money towards it, my participation would not be as a driver.

If you don't want to wait, figure out a plan, a real plan, and put it into motion, but I think I laid out a pretty decent plan for you, you just don't like the timeline....
I don't hate your plan duuude. When I grow up and get a "stable job" and have no other commitments, rally wont be something that needs a plan it will just happen because I will have the resources and I wont have to eat broccoli.

Rallying at our age now is what requires a plan because we don't just have the resources to do it. I've heard it been said on this fourm that with almost any full time job, you should be able to rally in some fourm and now living on my own, I can look at the expenses I have and I can tell you now it can happen. Now the question is how do I make full time money at my age. And I don't think that's impossible. Moving out of my house taught me pretty much that there are alot of ways to make money if your willing to be creative.

As I said before ALOT of money has passed through my hands through the last 3 years. The question maybe isn't how to make more maybe its how to keep more.

I've had a real plan for a while. I'm in the middle of it. I'm not even at step 1. I'm more like at step 3 or 4.

Tell ya what when I hit the stages I'm driving to Colorado and callin you out. Showdown on the stages how about it.

And as I say this before I posted I went to my old workplace and guess what I never got my real last paycheck.

I'm one step closer

Be scared.

Be very scared.

 

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ITURNRT
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This thread has now 100% gone to shit.


Bottom line, there's no "cheap" way to race unless you happen to have a large sum of money. If you honestly want to get close to racing, but not have a racing budget, get into sim racing. Nobody is going to "make it big" in American rally on hopes and dreams. People need to get realistic, get a good education or find a good skilled trade that will make you lots of money to go REGIONAL racing. Have your fun that way. I was a 17 year old kid with a dream to race cars, I didn't start racing until I was 26. There is no way a high school kid could do anything outside of running their local regional event. I maybe pulled several grand in a summer job, but most of that is what I survived on for room/food in college, I got my school paid for through scholarship (if you're not as lucky then you're stuck with student debts), came home in the summer with double digits in my bank account and fumes in my gas tank to get me to my first day of my summer job. A running cost for a weekend, if you bare bones it, is something like $2000. The math isn't hard.
 

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This thread has now 100% gone to shit.


Bottom line, there's no "cheap" way to race unless you happen to have a large sum of money. If you honestly want to get close to racing, but not have a racing budget, get into sim racing. Nobody is going to "make it big" in American rally on hopes and dreams. People need to get realistic, get a good education or find a good skilled trade that will make you lots of money to go REGIONAL racing. Have your fun that way. I was a 17 year old kid with a dream to race cars, I didn't start racing until I was 26. There is no way a high school kid could do anything outside of running their local regional event. I maybe pulled several grand in a summer job, but most of that is what I survived on for room/food in college, I got my school paid for through scholarship (if you're not as lucky then you're stuck with student debts), came home in the summer with double digits in my bank account and fumes in my gas tank to get me to my first day of my summer job. A running cost for a weekend, if you bare bones it, is something like $2000. The math isn't hard.
DVW was competing RA 'national' championship while he was technically in high school. But, his family also has deep pockets and deep connections in motorsports in general. That toterhome though!

Seriously, LexusDuder, I wanna come to the big apple and buy you a beer! You got this all figured out. Wish I had when I was in school instead of hookin' up w/ Uncle Sam and saving money. What a waste of several years. And on top of that, I even sold the rally truck to go to school afterwards. Now look at me.. I just assist with organizing rallies and volunteer my life away. *les sigh*

oh, and do sim racing. :)
 

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ITURNRT
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Again, Dillon's family has money. Shit, his Fiesta is a beast of a machine but if an R2 fiesta costs $70k turnkey, granted his didn't need homoligated parts, but still was a lot better spec'd vehicle.

But the biggest way to save on rally is having your own tolls and doing a lot of work/fabrication yourself. I built my own car but only paid to have the cage work and skid plate done. But a set of basic tools is $100 from Craftsman, most other things like bearing presses, ball joint kits, spring compressors can all be rented for free from a local auto parts store. Get yourself a good jack that lifts 20"+, get some good 6 ton jack stands to hold your car high off the ground. But a welder that's not a Lowe's/Home Depot/Harbor Freight one, get a GOOD entry level 140 model. A drill press, chop saw, work bench, vise, 20 ton press is always nice but not 100% needed, angle grinder, cordless and corded drill/impact. Get GOOD LIGHTING in your garage.

The reality with rally tools though. Thing what the service guys have that work on your car, if you just look up pictures of a WRC service guy's tool kit, get all those tools, you can fix just about anything on a car.
 
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