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I drive the car.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's a small world my friends.

Last weekend a good friend of my was run off of the road by a very orange SCCA ClubRally Impreza here in the Portland Oregon west hills area.

His complete story can be found at,

http://www.transalp.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=445&sid=8e8305583097393dbbc31241783804a9

He is a huge fan of rally and did not put in his post that the culpret car was in fact a rally car with stickers and everything! He did'nt want to go rally a bad name!

I saw him today and he is indeed fine. But this kind of driving on the street, on open roads and in broad daylight(!) is just un-acceptable. This kind of thing does nothing but bad for the image of our sport.

He asked me if I knew the car. Which of course I know very well. He asked me to do what I thought was right with this information...

So let us all learn from this as well.

Thank you,

Charles
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

Charles,
didn't you write on and on about how experienced you were in driving your MR2s all over at 100+ thru t junctions and how you were such a great driver and controlled the car so well....?

Your friend says he laughed at the other guy who pranged his Honda.

Should we return him the favor?

And what do you suggest should be done about the orange Sub-a-rat driver?
One persons word against another.
Your friend says he was "leaned over pretty far" which means he was cornering vigourously also.

I say he was lucky while hot-rodding on his bike that he didn't hit the car or the ca didn't hit him, get some new plastic and count your blessings, the Sub-a-rat driving sounded like he was doing the same thing as your friend.



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

The big difference is that one was some guy on a motorcycle the other was a Rally Driver, in a stickered Rally Car representing the sport of Rallying and the SCCA to the public and the officials that grant or deny road permissions.
 

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Lost....We're not lost
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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

>The big difference is that one was some guy on a motorcycle
>the other was a Rally Driver, in a stickered Rally Car
>representing the sport of Rallying and the SCCA to the
>public and the officials that grant or deny road
>permissions.

You know my next door neighbor is a local county police officer with a lot of friends. It just so happens he and quite a few of his county police officer buddies have motorcycles and probably ride in the very area where this incident occurred. What if it had been them instead of Charles' friend in this case? A large group of motorcycles & a car two feet over the centerline.....

My guess: the Oregon Rally Group would NEVER see another county road in this area again.

In addition, these same gentlemen work in the county where some of the Oregon Rally Group's Rally Cross events are held. Sure wouldn't make many folks happy if we lost that venue...

The ramifications could be far reaching for the SCCA as a whole.
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

>>The big difference is that one was some guy on a motorcycle
>>the other was a Rally Driver, in a stickered Rally Car
>>representing the sport of Rallying and the SCCA to the
>>public and the officials that grant or deny road
>>permissions.

No a stupid punk kid is a Sub-a-rat with stacks of silly stickers, some which happen to be SCCA stickers, driving in a local well known 'fun and games area' does NOT represent SCCA, NASA, CARS, the FIA or anybody wether he goes over the center line or not.
Silly hysterical people may attempt to suggest that he does, but it is an absolute MUST that nobody take responsibility for the actions of the idiot.
Indeed since Charles Buren says he knows the guy, it is incumbent to name the guy and fiurther, as a responsible citizen to name the guy, notify the police, and THEREBY show that 'we ain't the baddies'.

In case any of you guys don't know, SCCA has no control of what happens to their stickers, further, believe it or not some people have reportedly actually made their own stickers and number backers etc cause they are poser-weenies and they think a bunch of stickers makes them look 'rad' or 'phat' or 'happenin', rather than like a tacky billboard.
>
>You know my next door neighbor is a local county police
>officer with a lot of friends. It just so happens he and
>quite a few of his county police officer buddies have
>motorcycles and probably ride in the very area where this
>incident occurred. What if it had been them instead of
>Charles' friend in this case? A large group of motorcycles &
>a car two feet over the centerline.....
>
>My guess: the Oregon Rally Group would NEVER see another
>county road in this area again.
Then march across the street and say "I know a fellow who knows the guy who owns that car who ran the _guy who was up rat-racing his Trans-alp_ off the road, call Charles Buren and he'll tell you the guys name and you can question him, photgraph the car and show the victim and see if the guy recognises the car (and then say clearly )
because we moral, clean goodie Rallyists don't want to be asscociated with un-social nasty driving, and we NEVER cross the centerline when we're up there rat-racing around............"

Boys, I rode bikes for over 20 years, and the guy on the bike said he too was driving with vigor and said the bike "was leaned over pretty good" on the 30 mph corner (he did not say exactly how fast he was going, I will assume because _he wasn't really paying attention to the speedometer_, he was concentrating on the road _because he was _playing motorcycle hot shot_ in what I clearly understand to be a play area.)
>
>In addition, these same gentlemen work in the county where
>some of the Oregon Rally Group's Rally Cross events are
>held. Sure wouldn't make many folks happy if we lost that
>venue...
>
>The ramifications could be far reaching for the SCCA as a
>whole.
Only if everybody acts like schoolgirls and whispers amongst each other innuendo about who the orange Sub-a-rat punk is.
Turn him in.
Hell, lynch him, then throw his carcass onto the front steps of the sherrifs office and claim the reward.

But stop sounding like a bunch of Nellies.

SCCA had nothing to do with this,


Now if was like I have watched a particular long term NW VW guy from Bellevue drive on TRANSITS in conjuction with a sanctioned event, or the way Kurt Spitzner was repeatedly passing on the double yellow driving out Shelton Matlock road to supervise the covering of Havirs rolled Sub-a-rat a couple of years ago, then the implications are inescapeable and inarguable.

But oddly nobody raised a stink then.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

I just read through the article in question and other than the "friend" posting that the car was Orange, where are all the bits about it being a Rally Car and SCCA signs and such?

There must have been some conversations that were NOT on the forum to disclose all that?

Anyway, sad story and my heartfelt concern.

I am heavily involved in Rally in the Northwest as both Director of the Rally Cross Division in the Oregon Region and the Director of Safety/Recovery for the Pro and Club Rally Events in the Oregon Region.

To my knowlege and my considerable exposure to Rally, it's events and all the competitors....

There is only one clearly marked Orange Subaru Impreza that competes with us and it belonged to a middle aged woman that I know for a fact wouldn't be driving as was described or in the area described. She's from the Seattle area and very responsible.

That is not to say it hasn't been sold or even borrowed since the Oregon Trail Pro Rally when I last saw it.

That is also not to say there isn't other Subaru's out there that are Orange thay may, or may not, have a ton of stickers on it with some of the them saying SCCA.

I'm merely suggesting that it may NOT be an SCCA or ORG Rally member.

Either way, as a Director for the Oregon Region SCCA Rally Division, I am very senstitive about negative press and impressions of Rally, Ragional or National and am completely aware of the implications that COULD be made here and I think that we might want to consider being discretely proactive in gathering and controlling information IF that party happens to be a local member. If not, then our discreation has saved the reputation of the member that may be needlessly accused.

We are a proactive leadership and work with our local law enforcement to show our respect and sense of responsibility as the Regional Club Management. Even today, I am speaking on behalf of the Region to the Tualitin Polics Department that nailed a speeding Competitor as he left our event yesterday. We want to let the local establishemnt know that we don't condone that behavior and that we really, truly want to keep the sport positive and responsible. And that that individual will not only have to pay his ticket but that he is also going to have to pay dearly with his membership and participation with the Oregon Region SCCA.

Sincerly,

Scott "DKOV" Kovalik
ORG SCCA RX DIR
ORG SCCA Pro Rally Safety/Recovery Dir
---------------------
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

I see both sides of the discussion but it sounds to me like both parties are at fault. Crossing over the center line on a road is unacceptable, but the motorcyclist sounded like he was pretty commited to the corner (the fact he was leaning and trying to get the apex). There are very few (any?) times when a motorcyclist should be leaned over very far on the street, we all know what kind of riding he was doing.

And commiting to a corner like this on an unprepared surface on a bike is just asking for it. Had there been oil, debris, or an animal in the road it would have been the same result. So part of the burden on the bike is to ride safely for the given conditions regardless of the speed limit on the road.


C
 

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RE: Another lesson...Indeed

>I just read through the article in question and other than
>the "friend" posting that the car was Orange, where are all
>the bits about it being a Rally Car and SCCA signs and such?
>
I think maybe in the second line:
Last weekend a good friend of my was run off of the road by a very orange (yes here it is!)---->SCCA ClubRally Impreza here in the Portland Oregon west hills area.

His complete story can be found at,

http://www.transalp.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=445&sid=8e8305583097393dbbc31241783804a9

(There is some reference here also.)

Yeah here it is from the Trans-alp board, a typical brand forum.
modrover



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 108
Location: Vancouver, WA USA

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:22 am Post subject: that Subaru guy sucks the big one!
Jake,

For what it's worth, I've got a call out to a guy that is into the whole Subaru Rally car thing in the Portland area. If anybody knows of that SOB driving the orange colored Rally car, it'll be this guy. I understand what the cop said about no contact being made, but wouldn't be good to find out who this jerkoff is? I'd like him to know that he ALMOST KILLED MY FRIEND!!! I won't punch him in the head or anything. I will hold him for you while you do it though"""
***************

He is a huge fan of rally and did not put in his post that the culpret car was in fact a rally car with stickers and everything! He did'nt want to go rally a bad nam





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Stickers are cheap

I saw a Subaru that was decaled to look like a WRC car, doesn't mean that it is was! Somehow I doubt Petter was driving around VT.

You have heard one side of the story. There are two sides to every story. How do we know that there wasn't a reason for the Subaru to be over the center line, maybe he was avoiding something that was in his lane. Maybe he had as little pavement on his side as the guy on the bike did? Remember that the road crews painted the gravel on the bike rider's side.

Ever sat on jury duty? If you have, you know that you hear both sides of the story before you decide guilt or innocence!

As far as the driver of the Subaru goes, he probably didn't see the bike go down!

Get over it!


Rob
 

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your other left, you idiot
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stories

Actually, there are 3 sides to every story:
- yours
- mine
- the truth

And the first two are colored by our perceptions.

press on,
 

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codriveur
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I understand being emotionaly involved because it's a friend but what a load of h*rsesh*t.

1. People are responsible for thier own actions. This isn't Hillary Clinton land where "It Takes a Village" of rally people to help a punk ass grow up. (if you don't get that reference, your not going to get the idea anyway)

2.If this Orange Rally Punk is obvious and well known to locals, you better believe the police know who he is.

3.I've had plenty of accidents during my youth due to my own over commitment. I can not tell you from the experiance of a single impact what the other car was. (That's what police reports are for, anyway) Even the slowest motion accidents that felt like they took a full minute never gave me that detail. A guy with his head hanging over the yellow line knows what brand car and details about the markings?

4.I saw a tuner boy light up recklessly the other day and was able to get over to the side before his quarter hit my fender. I was going a little fast myself and I'm sure he didn't see me until he was committed. Do I hate drifters? No. Do I want to put a beat down on every Honda with a coffee can hanging off the back? No. Was I equally stupid? Yes.

Be glad no one died or was seriously hurt. Like Rob said, Get over it.

Bernie
 

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I drive the car.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ifs are IFS but, IF the car had hit my friend the implications could have been far streatching. Six o'clock news,,, then the AP could pick it up,,, and the next thing you know the whole world is talking about us. Not so far off of an idea in my opinion.

And no, I DID NOT SAY

"didn't you write on and on about how experienced you were in driving your MR2s all over at 100+ thru t junctions and how you were such a great driver and controlled the car so well....?"

Besides, we all know if I actually got the MR2 to go 100+ the engine would just disentigrate anyway! :p

Just be cool out there my friends, that's all, be cool in your rally cars on the street.

Thank you again,
Charles
 

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on a lighter note :D

we should all get nascar© stickers and go speeding around and destory elementary school playgrounds and grassfields, maybe they would shut down nascar... dare to dream arnold... dare to dream
 

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We've all been guilty of spirited driving and/or riding.
I'm glad your friend 'walked' away. Bikes can be fixed or replaced.

Is the transalp now for sale. Seriously! Call me. or rather e-mail me off-line. Sorry if it sounds like looking in the obituaries for an apartment, but have been looking for a TA.
 

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I had to chime in on this one , as an ex motorcycle roadracer and motorcyclist for 27 years. If you are so commited in a 30 MPH corner that you can't lift the bike up and pitch it back in without crashing , then you are obviuosly riding to fast for the street. I have doubts about the car being an actual Rally car with a Rally driver at the wheel. I would be more inclined to believe it was a wanna be as has been suggested. I do know of instances where guys took their race bikes to the canyons but they were not racers - they were street squids who tried racing and then went back to the canyons , so maybe the Sube driver does Rally. Make no doubt Mr Sube bears half the responsibility. The guys post should have read why you shouldn't commit 100% on canyon roads. On a final note why do these stories always have the phrases "we were going at a spirited pace" and "it's a road I know very well" It sounds like your friend learned a valuable lesson the hard way.

Tom Grossmann

PS what's wrong with house hunting in the obits???
 

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I also have to chime in on this one. Grossman, you ain't old enough to have been racing for 27 years!
 
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