[ltrally]

Don't know how many people have noticed, but the Air Force Reserve Ford Focus is posted for sale at the following website:

www.rallycarsforsale.net

Wondering if we could have any comments from the people involved???

 

[John Cassidy]

Sad to see it go. Is AFR even staying in for 2004.

Regards, John

 

[fieldthis]

It's on Ben's site too.

http://www.rallyclassified.com/detail.php?cat=19&de=724

Back to Group N? New Car? Or just out all together?

 

[StewM]

There is a rmour on another forum that both Air Force and Subaru are pulling out of SCCA Pro Rally next year

 

[Brian Scott]

What's the other forum. Just curious.

Brian

 

[Chris Powell]

Sidenote...

Upon perusing through that website, I noticed there are many rally cars called "kit" cars. The prices of many of these are similar to or higher than other similar non-"kit" cars. I think of a "kit" car as a Coyote, or various types of sand buggies that you add a cheap VW air-cooled engine to. What do they mean by this, forgive my naivete?
[hr]

CP​

[hr]

 

[FMF]

>Is AFR even staying in for 2004.

Last I knew they had a new car for the new rules and were going to keep that one for a spare/spares but apparently they couldn?t afford it. I think it is a good decision, have a $100,000+? car sitting around when you could just have some parts and a plan to get the others if things go wrong. Now that Tim is gone they are going to have to pay some serious money to get a competitive driver so I am sure that played into it. Unfortunately for AFR that same driver is going to have to drive that car like he stole it to try and be competitive so they may wish they had the spare car after all. Or they could all switch to N or N prototype and all have to drive to the limit and beyond to be competitive and be able to afford to do so and so would some other people. Meanwhile we would all be treated to a show and SCCA pro rally would be a driving competition not a spending competition and people like Pastrana could enter and GROW THE SPORT not be priced out of the game. Was I b!#(*ing about this before? Sorry I forgot

 

[Gravel Spray]

>>Is AFR even staying in for 2004.
>
>Last I knew they had a new car for the new rules and were
>going to keep that one for a spare/spares but apparently
>they couldn?t afford it. I think it is a good decision, have
>a $100,000+? car sitting around when you could just have
>some parts and a plan to get the others if things go wrong.
>Now that Tim is gone they are going to have to pay some
>serious money to get a competitive driver so I am sure that
>played into it. Unfortunately for AFR that same driver is
>going to have to drive that car like he stole it to try and
>be competitive so they may wish they had the spare car after
>all. Or they could all switch to N or N prototype and all
>have to drive to the limit and beyond to be competitive and
>be able to afford to do so and so would some other people.
>Meanwhile we would all be treated to a show and SCCA pro
>rally would be a driving competition not a spending
>competition and people like Pastrana could enter and GROW
>THE SPORT not be priced out of the game. Was I b!#(*ing
>about this before? Sorry I forgot




You mean I, as a TAX payer have helped the US govt buy NOT ONE, but TWO rally cars????

And what changed the rules so much they "had" to buy another car?




pete

 

[Guest]

>You mean I, as a TAX payer have helped the US govt buy NOT
>ONE, but TWO rally cars????
>
>And what changed the rules so much they "had" to buy another
>car?
>
>
>
>
>pete


I have some "National Guard" tube socks that some recruiters gave us during a high school presentation.

I can send them your way

 

[Lancia037Rally]

Paging Major Greg

>There is a rumor on another forum that both Air Force and
>Subaru are pulling out of SCCA Pro Rally next year

With Hyundai and Mitsubishi gone, it leaves only 2 sources (AFR & Subaru)to split the cost so now they'd have to each pay more than before. I'd think its time for each to step back and take a look-see at what they are getting for their investment.

Now how many people do you think joined the AirForce because they saw the AirForce rally program? Yokohama sponsors the Canadian Rally Championship and I did buy Yokohamas for my Audi and Mustang because of their support. But joining the AirForce is a more dramatic lifestyle change than just buying tires.

 

[J Nelson]

Kit cars re rally kit cars describe a factory sold model for rallying in 2 wd with specified engine, trans, running gear and other equipment. Volkswagen and Peugeot sell some of the best kit cars.... and they are not cheap, starting at over $50K and many in the $90K+ range new. These meet the rules for S1600 and other euro classes.

john nelson
#382

 

[Jim]

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID14/1111.html

 

[FMF]

>You mean I, as a TAX payer have helped the US govt buy NOT
>ONE, but TWO rally cars????
>
>And what changed the rules so much they "had" to buy another
>car?
>pete

Oh, you where one of those people they managed to slip that little rule change by? WRC cars are now legal here! If you don't like the idea of the government spending a few hundred thousand on Rally I wouldn?t advise watching the news! Keep your blinders on buy stuff and just pay your damn taxes!

 

[John Vanos]

"WRC cars are now legal here!"
huh??
this true???

 

[Gravel Spray]

Slip a rule change? Don't tell me, another Local Homologation?


Yeah, I guess a half mil here and there for a rally program, is not all that bad..............Hey are those socks new?



Pete

 

[Guest]

I turned one of them into a Dick Cheney sock puppet.

You can still wear it, although the pacemaker digs into the top of your foot if you are wearing tight boots.

 

[RussR]

>What's the other forum. Just curious.
>
>Brian

Maybe here?:

http://forums.motorsport.com/forums...5b8062b651da2252f&threadid=80396&pagenumber=2

 

[Adrian Wintle]

RE: Sidenote...

>Upon perusing through that website, I noticed there are many
>rally cars called "kit" cars. The prices of many of these
>are similar to or higher than other similar non-"kit" cars.
>I think of a "kit" car as a Coyote, or various types of sand
>buggies that you add a cheap VW air-cooled engine to. What
>do they mean by this, forgive my naivete?

As John said, they are a type of homologated rally car. The way it works is that manufacturers are allowed to homologate a 'kit' of parts - all of which have to be used - to improve the basic homologated GpA car. These are only applicable to 2wd cars (A7, A6, A5?), and are similar in concept to the WRC homologations (take the base car and make it meaner...). F2 cars are A7 Kit Cars, S1600 is an A6 Kit Car. It is possible for a manufacturer to homologate an A6 Kit that would produce a more capable car than a S1600 (since S1600 has technology limits) but, since S1600 has become the supported class, I don't think any have done so in the last few years. I don't know if there are any A5 Kit Cars.

Adrian

 

[Jonathan Bottoms]

I guess this is the sign that AFR is out. They do not have a new cosworth Grp A car. They were going to do some upgrades to last years car. But, looks like thats off.

With Mitsu out, the TV package left too. Now SRTUSA is considering running just 1 car, a grp N based car for Ramana. I big savings over last years car. Whether or not it will be set up for N or open is the question.

So, here we're left with a clubman's rally series. You won't have the manuf. teams dominating. Now it's back to the privateers and prep shop customer cars. At least, that's the way it looks to me.

 

[Greg Pachman]

RE: Paging Major Greg

Hi

The fact the car is for sale shouldn't be a surprise. We had always planned to build an improved model for 2004. If we don't sell the old car here we will ship it back to England to sell it.

HOWEVER, I am still waiting for an answer from Subaru as to what their plans are for next year. I am very concerned with the current situation. In order for us to stay involved we must have a TV package. Without it we would not get the return on investment we need to make this program worthwhile and we are not going to waste money on a program that can't produce. An automotive sponsor could stay involved in that situation because they are selling product to the competitors. A non-automotive sponsor would have no reason to be there without TV as crowd size has always been our biggest marketing negative with rally. We were able to make it up, to a certain extent, with our marketing programs with SVT.

The one thing that is important to me is the partnership program. Although nothing was ever signed, I feel that we made a promise to the organizers in Topeka to support them and I will see that they get that support no matter what happens with our car.

The fact is that our budgets are in place for the car, the TV, and the partnership program, but for those things to happen we have to partner with other companies. I can't control what they do. If they don't participate then we can't either.

Honestly, whatever happens, I don't have hard feelings about it although I would be very disappointed if it doesn't work out. I know Dick Kelley at Mitsubishi did absolutely everything he could to save his program but the decision came from way over his head. I feel bad for him and Lance and David and everyone involved but that is just a very common part of this game.


Greg