Special Stage Forums banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to say thank you to Hyundai for the many contributions they made to U.S. Rallying.
-For several seasons Hyundai single-handedly paid for the production and airtime of the SCCA Pro Rally television package. This created awareness as well as providing added credibility to the sport .
-Hyundai supported Pro Rally through the companies many marketing initiatives, some that you may not have seen.
-Through the use of the Tiburon Production Class Rally car over the past three seasons, journalists and celebrities brought valuable national media exposure to SCCA Pro Rally. The many magazine articles and TV appearances resulting from this program, had an estimated equivalent ad value of $2 million plus .
-The team management was instrumental in forging ahead the use of course notes at Oregon Trail this year rather than waiting until STPR.
-Hyundai also sponsored many pre and post rally parties.
-Despite the perception of those outside the Manufacturers Council, Hyundai representatives often took stands on issues that were in the best interest of the sport and not necessarily in their own immediate best interest.
-There are many other behind the scene contributions that were made as well.
-It is conceivable that Hyundai's participation over the years raised the level of the series enough to bring in ProDrive and Mitsubishi.
-Certainly the level of the events, without doubt the level of the cars entering, and Pro Rally in general are better off for having had Hyundai's involvement the last few years.
I personally would like to thank the people at Hyundai and Libra Racing for giving me the opportunity to take photographs for them. These photos have been published in several automotive and national airline magazines, Hispanic publications and newspapers as well as websites, and Specialstage.com where I hope the photos gave people a chance to see a little bit of the rallies when they could not be there themselves.
This Year, against all odds, Hyundai once again won the manufacturers championship. I would like to take this opportunity to mention the names of all the people behind this years success.
Toni Honsowetz
John Buffum
James ?Salty? Sottolano
Paul Truess
Dom Buckley
Neil Buckley
Randell Edgell
Brian Oldfield
Brandon Swett
Bob Campbell
Paul Ludgate
Fritz Wilke
John ?sonic? Liddell
Paul Choiniere
Jeff Becker
John Bennie
Mark Higgins
Michael Gibson
Claire Mole
Bryan Thomas
Paula Gibeault
Morgan Segal
Cindy Krolikowski
Henry Krolikowski


Because of all the negativity towards the manufacturers on this forum, I thought it necessary to point out some of the good points for a change. If you have not noticed, there are new people signing up for this forum everyday. If I was new to the forum and the sport, I would be turned away by the incessant bickering about the manufacturers, the SCCA and the references to Kurt Spitzner that suggest he is a Nazi. If you want the sport to grow to where companies would be interested in sponsoring you, then it is a necessary evil to have manufacturers and wealthy privateers involved. To those who say they saw this happen in the 80?s, well this is not the 80?s, there are way more media outlets now, there is a higher acceptance of foreign cars in America now, and the quality and reliability of these cars is directly marketable to rallying. In addition, young people have been directly exposed to adrenalin sports that did not exist twenty years ago. These young people won?t be interested in watching rallying on TV, buying magazines with rally related stories, or be willing to travel great distances to spectate an event, if all they are going to see is a bunch of 10-20 year old beater cars going down dirt roads in a less than spectacular fasion. Motorsports enthusiasts want to see the latest and greatest technology, and the fastest drivers and cars. Only big money will bring that, and it will trickle down eventually to the little guy, but it won?t happen over night. I am not saying that people without the funding to run a modern rally car should be excluded, but both sides of the coin need to be considered.
Of course this could all fail at anytime, but the attitude on this forum is not helping it, there are better ways to incite change to the SCCA?s policies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
AMEN TO THAT.....I for one would love to see more manufactures involved. Of course I still want to see more amateurs involved as well. Wouldn't it be great to add some awd FOCI, awd neons, etc. to the ever growing sea of WRX's in the US. And let the parts/technology trickle downhill to the amateurs. And of course more free rides for people wanting to be pros.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Nobody, to my recollection, has said that manufacturers competing is bad. All the things you listed are great contributions and you are correct to thank them. I too want more, not less manufacturers *competing* in ProRally. What I, and most everyone I can think of that has said negative things about the manufacurers is directly related to their, through the manufacturers council, manipulation of the rules making process, and then the interferance with the equal application of said rules.

More manufacturers competing=GREAT!
Manufacturers having *ANYTHING* to do with rules making=BAD

For the record, I am sorry to see Hyundai go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Thanks Morgan for putting a very unique perspective to all of this. It is sad to see Hyundai leave the series but they have accomplished alot in spite of huge budgets put up against them. They have won the championship many times and now, as did Audi, it is time for them to gracefully bow out. Morgan sees all of this as few of us have, and in addition to being a gifted photographer, he has eloquently put things correctly for all of us to understand better what has come to pass.
Thanks
john nelson
#382;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,738 Posts
Excuse me! What's wrong with watching "10-20 year old beater cars?" I take that as an insult to me and everyone else who drives older cars. I will be out next year in my 28 year old Corolla.You can stick your mega dollar cars where the sun don't shine. I for one won't miss them. They did nothing to get my adrenalin going!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
And here I am sitting at my computer wearing Nomex:p

Thanks John! I guess you are right,I do have a different perspective, I suppose I am a "professional spectator" per say and I see things and hear things from the outside looking in and at times from the inside looking out.
I think the perception of the manufacturers council as being the evil empire that manipulates the rules to their satisfaction is a bit overblown. I believe the main point of it is to decide on matters of marketing and the TV package, of which the manufacturers pay for, so they are entitled to make those decisions. Of course I am only speculating since I have never been to a meeting, but I am sure they weigh the consequences (to the rally community) of the decisions they make. They are decent people, after all, and they are not out to get you, if this was a really big problem I guarrantee there would be much more than 5-10 people complaining on Specialstage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You missed the point. The factory teams are the draw for spectators, if you have not noticed that,then you are blind. Look at how many more spectators are out on the stages since the megadollar cars arrived. Look at all the spectators at service that surround said megadollar cars. More spectators equals more revenue for the small towns that host the rallies, more revenue for vendors, more return for the organizers (you could say more headaches too, Catch 22).

I never said there is anything wrong with the old cars, personally I would like to see a section at rallies devoted to Historic and Post historics (I.E. over 20 years), like they do it in Europe. I did go to 14 rallies this year and I can guage the reactions of people, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that people were there to see the fast megadollar cars pop, crack and bang!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
946 Posts
>You missed the point. The factory teams are the draw for
>spectators, if you have not noticed that,then you are blind.
>Look at how many more spectators are out on the stages since
>the megadollar cars arrived. Look at all the spectators at
>service that surround said megadollar cars. More spectators
>equals more revenue for the small towns that host the
>rallies, more revenue for vendors, more return for the
>organizers (you could say more headaches too, Catch 22).
I too remember the days of smaller crowds. Seems to me my entry fee was much smaller too.

>
>I never said there is anything wrong with the old cars,
>personally I would like to see a section at rallies devoted
>to Historic and Post historics (I.E. over 20 years), like
>they do it in Europe. I did go to 14 rallies this year and I
>can guage the reactions of people, it doesn't take a rocket
>scientist to see that people were there to see the fast
>megadollar cars pop, crack and bang!

I disagree to some extent. Most of the growth of spectators is due to the WRX and the free SCCA membership. A ton of the street cars I've walked by to get to stages are WRX's.

Television did the most to find the sport for people. Hyundai obviously subsidized that for years before Subaru & Mitsu took notice. Who gets shown on TV? The front fast guys, so of course it is human nature to want to go see the same cars that are on TV. Its horribly unsafe though, because the TV watching fools think they are fast enough to dodge rally cars that are further down in the order than the 2 minute apart cars. But that is another subject entirely.

I for one am Sad to see Hyunda go. Maybe they took JB up on his suggestion and are going to sponsor a Golf tournament. It just won't be a ProRally unless JB is lurking somewhere or the occasional put the rest of us in our place drive.
 

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
>It just won't be a ProRally unless JB is lurking somewhere
>or the occasional put the rest of us in our place drive.

Such as his victory at Charlevoix this year. In retrospect, it was appropriate that it was John who gave the Hyundai factory cars their last win - although his participation at Charlevoix was far from a company blessed entry.

Doug Woods
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
>Such as his victory at Charlevoix this year. In retrospect,
>it was appropriate that it was John who gave the Hyundai
>factory cars their last win - although his participation at
>Charlevoix was far from a company blessed entry.

This reminds me of something... What happens to the cars? Can a private team hope to keep them running w/o factory support? Are they for sale? I thought of this at the beginning of the season when the old Tiburons were replaced. Do they just get put out to pasture or made available to up-and-comers or other competitors?

DPM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
946 Posts
>>Such as his victory at Charlevoix this year. In retrospect,
>>it was appropriate that it was John who gave the Hyundai
>>factory cars their last win - although his participation at
>>Charlevoix was far from a company blessed entry.
>
>This reminds me of something... What happens to the cars?
>Can a private team hope to keep them running w/o factory
>support? Are they for sale? I thought of this at the
>beginning of the season when the old Tiburons were replaced.
>Do they just get put out to pasture or made available to
>up-and-comers or other competitors?
>
>DPM

Usually 3 choices with factory cars...

1) Sell to privateer
2) Museum
3) ... Crusher...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
I was wondering the same thing. I'd love to get my hands on one of those beta turbo motors and throw it in a US accent. :) It'd be a great daily driver.

-Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
"there are better ways to incite change to the SCCA?s policies."

if there are let us know, although not a member i know some who may like this info! SCHOOL US, we all want the sport to grow!

josh long
 

·
Slid'n around 'n havin a ball
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
Hi Morgan, no nomex needed...
"Because of all the negativity towards the manufacturers on this forum,"
I have no problem with the Manuf., they are doing what they need to do, if they get what they want, good for them. If we let them, it can be, but not always, a bad thing. I understand they want to beat each other and don't always think of the fallout. If they have 6 rockets and we have 60 arrows, the show stinks worse from the disparity.
--
"Kurt Spitzner... is a ####."
I didn't say that (publicly).
---
"the attitude on this forum is not helping it, there are better ways to incite change to the SCCA?s policies."
From now on, I'll push the on the the other 4 of us to be all happy and cheer each stupid rule and ruling so that everyone looks at us as a happy bunch.
In my 25 years in the club I've been involved in a lot of rules, changes and series. I have to say that being able to bounce ideas around in a couple days and get reactions immediately is far superior to writing letters and calling around, then having a stupid conference call to wrap things up. I wouldn't ever want to go backwards.
rz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Morgan, you bring up a lot of good points, and for the most part I have to agree with you. Negativity without any constructive suggestions doesn't really get us anywhere. One point I'd like to bring up though, is that the SCCA is best at putting together well organized and safe amature events. It is after all a club, not merely a sanctioning body. I think what the major complaint is, is that while the little guy is waiting for benefits to trickle down to him, he feels The Powers That Be aren't doing much else for him while waiting for that trickle down.

Not a flame, just some thoughts...

I also wanted to put out there that yes, I'm a 23 year old enthusiast, who has very little interest in the lastest/greatest technology. Haveing attended a fair number of both, I've found the club events much more fun to be involved in than the "Pro". Much less pressure, and far fewer ppl impressed with themselves for being where they are. *shrug* True, most of the driving is less than spectacular, and I wish it were otherwise, but you have pretty much the same thing after the first 10 or 15 cars at a national event too. I also love my vintage machinery... But then, I've never been accused of being a prime example of my age group.

I have to hope that Hyundai's previous efforts in building the national series don't go to waste. Perhaps complaints could be kept to a minimum if the changes to the pro series don't affect the rules in the club events? As in, greater separtion of the the two groups?

Nick Polimeni
'71 Volvo 142E (daily driver/RallyCross: Up on stands, too much rust)
Editor, Blue Mountain Region, SCCA
[email protected]

p.s. Hopefully that was more constuctive than a mere complaint? Lemme know...
 

·
Retired Rally Photographer
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
>This reminds me of something... What happens to the cars?
>Can a private team hope to keep them running w/o factory
>support? Are they for sale? I thought of this at the
>beginning of the season when the old Tiburons were replaced.
>Do they just get put out to pasture or made available to
>up-and-comers or other competitors?

I talked to Jeff Becker at Cherokee Trails and he said they either have to send them to Europe, or destroy them.

Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,258 Posts
Was talking to Jeff Becker at Pine Barren Express on 11/23 about that subject. They are definitely crushed. No ifs, ands or buts about it (not the production car).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
>If you have not noticed, there are
>new people signing up for this forum everyday. If I was new
>to the forum and the sport, I would be turned away by the
>incessant bickering about the manufacturers, the SCCA...


Moorgan-

As a priveteer spending my own money, thank goodness there is specialstage; an outlet where I am not fed a line of bull and can read many diffrent opinions. I can then take the infromation and make an informed and educated choice on how to spend my money.

I think newcomers should be exposed to every view point and all the bickering. To do less is dishonest and misleading.

Derek Bottles

By the way I thank every priveteer who went out and entered a rally paid entry/membership fees. I also thank every worker who stood in the cold so I could have fun. I also thank every commitee member, event organiser, land owner and many others I am overlooking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I would like to point out that I added Cindy and Henry Krolikowsi's names to the list. Cindy Co-Drove Paul Choiniere at Pikes Peak and Henry lent a hand in more ways than one on numerous occasions. I had a senior moment and forgot to include them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,383 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
>"there are better ways to incite change to the SCCA?s
>policies."
>
>if there are let us know, although not a member i know some
>who may like this info! SCHOOL US, we all want the sport to
>grow!
>
>josh long

Petitions
phone calls
letters
boycotts
organized gatherings
work with the PRB?
work with Rally America?
letters to major magazines
volunteering
constructive criticism
offering new ideas up on Specialstage forum
tar and feathering;)
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top