[jeff burmeister]

As information regarding the incident occuring this weekend at Ski Sawmill was made aware to us, we made the decission to shut down the forums for a period of time.

This was done out of respect for the friends and family of the individuals involved in this incident. We did not wish someone to learn about a loved one from secondary/heresay source. Hence our decission to shut down the forums for 14 hours.

It is our hope that the readership of SpecialStage exercise additional sensitivity if they choose to discuss this incident now or in the future as family members and friends are likely to be fellow readers.

If you feel the need to discuss our decission regarding the closing of our forums while families were informed, please contact me directly at [email protected], I will be more then willing to discuss this decission off line.

Jeffrey Burmeister
SpecialStage.com LLC

SCCA's Release regarding

http://www.scca.org/news/press03_31.html


(edited to add weblink)

 

[Mad Kiwi]

My thoughts go out to all involved
Leon Styles

 

[PAddy]

I think the best plan is to just stick to the press releases, as Jeff has kindly linked to above.

 

[tpenasack]

What is in the press release is what was presented to the competitors at the driver's meeting at the end of the day EXCEPT for the names of those involved. I know I was there. We were not told of any of the details of the accident. The only thing that was not mentioned was that the PA State Police is investigating, as would be expected.

Tim
#866

 

[CJPUTZIER]

I as a DRIVER this weekend at ski sawmill. Am having second thoughts about Driving again and the sale of my car . The doings of Specailstages and the People who deal with Ski Sawmill rally. Have a bigger thing to do and deal with at this point. So what they have said and done is the only way to leave this matter at this time. CHRIS PUTZER #963

 

[Pete Kuncis]

I was there as it happened. I was 50 feet away and saw the entire thing. So far, what the SCCA and such has released has been 100% accurate.

Pete

 

[jprowland]

There is a discrepancy in some of the press releases, some say Martin Reidy and some say Michael Reidy, brothers and both drivers. Pete Kuncis was at the scene and confirmed on another board that the SCCA press release is correct, listing Martin as one of the victims.

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[spoier]

Pete, glad you're safe and sound.

Since you were so close to the area perhaps you could fill in the only detail that's really missing from the description of the accident.

Where were the spectators standing? Was it a relatively safe area?

From the newspaper article:

[blockquote]
The driver of the high-performance Subaru WRX rally car, Peter P.
Malaszuk, 35, of Bridgeport, Conn., and navigator Piotr Deren of
Stamford, Conn., were not injured in the 4 p.m. crash, which occurred in
Lycoming County's Pine Township, about 21Ú2 miles west of Route 287 and
five miles south of Morris.

State Trooper Patrick Weindorf said Malaszuk was driving the WRX on
English Run Road in the third timed stage of the competition. The
vehicle was northbound at high speed when it crested a rise and became
airborne. Out of control, it ran off the west side of the road and
struck the men, then sheared off a tree and stopped, police said.
[/blockquote]

From that it sounds like it was open space between the crest and where the spectators were standing, if the tree was sheared off after the terrible accident. But if it was totally out of control after the crest the car could have gone anywhere really.

I'm not interested in assigning blame, just curious. At the rallies I've been to I've seen a lot of people standing in really dangerous areas and the marshals didn't seem to take any action. I'm volunteering at the next rally down here in June and so I hope to help prevent these sorts of things.

Sad day for rally in North America

Skye Poier
Seattle, WA

 

[Trevor Donison]

>Where were the spectators standing? Was it a relatively
>safe area?

Does this question really need answered?

 

[spoier]

Yes I think it does or I wouldn't have asked it.
I see two choices:

1. Stop doing all stage rally.
2. Learn from this terrible accident so it doesn't happen again.

You can't do #2 without knowing the circumstances that led to the accident. Granted you can never be 100% safe with a sport like this but certainly the risks can be reduced.

I suppose though with the popularity of litigation these days, any answers that might have a bearing on legal matters will not be forthcoming any time soon.

Skye

 

[jprowland]

Yes, I think it does. I've seen cars lock their brakes and slide straight at a turn, very predictable. I've seen other cars that caught a wheel and suddenly flew off at a wild angle or dove straight into the apex of a turn (usually considered a relatively "safe" spot), and who could have seen what the car would do? This is a good chance for people to assess what is "unsafe" and what is "safe" or, more realistically, "less unsafe."

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Visit my boring web page: http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland

 

[talon763]

I would like to pass along my regards to the friends and family of the victims of this horrible accident. You all are in my prayers and thoughts, this also includes the driver and co-drive.

Scott
#763

 

[Tommyguns]

I as well would like to send my regrets to the family and friends of all those involved.

 

[Pete Kuncis]

>I've seen other
>cars that caught a wheel and suddenly flew off at a wild
>angle

Without giving too much info about the crash away, this quote is fairly accurate.

 

[TNT]

Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved in the incident at hand.

Rally is a dangerous sport and accidents do happen, with rare unfortunate outcomes.

Todd and Tina
#205

 

[spoier]

OK. Thanks Pete.

Skye

 

[Trevor Donison]

>Yes I think it does or I wouldn't have asked it.
>I see two choices:
>
>1. Stop doing all stage rally.
>2. Learn from this terrible accident so it doesn't happen
>again.
>
>You can't do #2 without knowing the circumstances that led
>to the accident. Granted you can never be 100% safe with a
>sport like this but certainly the risks can be reduced.
>
>I suppose though with the popularity of litigation these
>days, any answers that might have a bearing on legal matters
>will not be forthcoming any time soon.
>
>Skye

Spectators have to be 100% safe or our sport is dead. 99.9999% isn't good enough.


Reality. The lawyers are going to get involved.

Spectating at events will never be the same again. There will be a very specific area they are allowed and it will have a heavy security presence. Don't expect to get on a stage anywhere that is not a specific spectator area. The lawyers will tell the Event organisers if their spectator area is approved. The lawyers will err on the side of caution to the nTH degree. I imagine to even spectate you will have to sign a waiver and have a wrist band.

Expect to get arrested if you try to sneak around and find your own place on the stage anyway. The Cherokee spectator experience from last year is going to probably be closer to the norm.

The organisers of ALL rally's in the United states are not paid. They are volunteers. They will either ensure the safety of spectators and competitors or they will stop holding events.

The entry fee's will go up to make sure that enough paid security is on hand to control the crowd. Any stage with even one spectator that is not in the exact spectator area will be cancelled.

I will agree with all of the changes. Spectating is supposed to be fun, participating as a competitor is supposed to be fun. Accidents involving spectators is not fun.

 

[Nick]

Why don't you want to give too much information about the crash away?

 

[Matt]

>Reality. The lawyers are going to get involved.
>
>Spectating at events will never be the same again. There
>will be a very specific area they are allowed and it will
>have a heavy security presence. Don't expect to get on a
>stage anywhere that is not a specific spectator area. The
>lawyers will tell the Event organisers if their spectator
>area is approved. The lawyers will err on the side of
>caution to the nTH degree. I imagine to even spectate you
>will have to sign a waiver and have a wrist band.


I think you're wrong. I think that the SCCA lawyers might tell the SCCA to make it difficult for spectators (not give out stage mapes, etc), and to not do ANY officially sanctioned spectator areas.

By herding spectators into certain designated spots, the liability to the Club is increased exponentially. Spectators injured in their own spots where somewhere they wanted to be. Spectators injured in an SCCA approved area are injured becuse they were forced to be there. The second scenario would be much more troublesome to the SCCA and it's insurer.

Just my thoughts.

Matt.

 

[Pete Kuncis]

>Why don't you want to give too much information about the
>crash away?

It is not my job to inform everyone as to what happened. Especially in a situation like this.