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Discussion Starter #1
Earlier this evening I read Greg Pachman's great post regarding the ProRally Partnership Program. I had hope that finally we were making progress toward the honest communications that we all need to help the sport grow into the future.

Then I saw the 9/28 letter sent by the ProRally Board to the organizers of the Wild West International Rally. The Wild West has been dropped from the ProRally series because of a bizzare assortment of incomprehensable allogations. Sorry I don't have a link to this letter, it seems to be one of those secret SCCA communications, please ask your representative on the ProRally Board for a copy.

My information request is simple, can one of our articulate sponsors, or anyone at the SCCA national office, or even the members of the ProRally Board honestly explain why the Wild West was dropped from the 2004 ProRally schedule? Then can you help me understand why the Wild West organizers were invited to participate in the 10/1 ProRally Partnership meeting?

Jim Culp
[http://wildwestrally.com]
 

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I read a copy of the same letter Ralph Kosmides was the only one who signed it.Does he have the authority to pull national rallys? Or is it that John Forespring stood up for Club Rally when it was in turmoil? I was hopeing the politics were going away after reading the nice post about the Oct 1st rally meeting.
 

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im confused.

this supposedly happened on 9/28 but WW was present at the 10/1 meeting. can someone explain this to me?

greg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
>im confused.
>
>this supposedly happened on 9/28 but WW was present at the
>10/1 meeting. can someone explain this to me?
>
>greg

Good question, hopefully someone at the SCCA will answer it for us. The facts are that the Wild West organizers were invited to attend the the 10/1 meeting at the same time that the ProRally Board was preparing their 9/28 letter removing the Wild West from the schedule.

Could there be a communications gap between the SCCA, the sponsors and the PRB? Kind of makes you wonder about the whole "partnership" doesn't it?

Jim Culp
 

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I knew my joy would be short lived.

Let me start the conspiracy theories (after all this info is just a rumor at the moment):

Shades of Prescott revistited?

PRB & PRD: remember you give us lots of reasons not to trust you. Keep adding to the list and watch the series you are trying to build crumble.

If you have legitimate reasons to pull the plug on an event as part of the National Championship then you had better be able to publicly stand up and defend your position.

It seems in trying to build a series you would want to work with an exsisting event to rectify an potential issues.

In the Dark,
Mike
 

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Based on the Competitor Evaluation Reports and the Steward's Report received for the 2003 event, the Performance Rally Board felt that the event was not meeting the organizational standards for a ProRally event, and voted to invite the Wild West Rally to be an observed ClubRally event for 2004, for possible inclusion into the ProRally Championship in 2005.

(Edit) Added: This will be in the December Fastrack Minutes.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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I think the decision was made long ago. The yellow shirts were in the bar running down John before a single car had taken the start ramp. If things were that bad why weren't they trying to help!
 

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the Performance Rally
>Board felt that the event was not meeting the organizational
>standards for a ProRally event,

Yea, so we should hang them! wait, was that the voice everyone can hear?

I thought the whole point of Rally America's partnership, and the SCCA 'Oversight', was to help all pro rallies move up to meet the operational standards. How much help where the WW organizers given before they where axed? where there major changes to the organizing group this year? was it that much worse than last year? where there problems last year and where the organizers made aware of them? do the organizers care if they are a 'Pro'Rally- or are they all breathing a sigh of releif that they where not 'invited' to be a ProRally next year? Does Prescott care that it is no longer a ProRally- I think everyone hade a good time at Prescott this year, and I'm sure the organizers lost just as much money as when they where a ProRally.
 

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Does this have anything to do with WildWest organanizer's not using RA timing equipment and support during the event?

Not sure if that was the case but that's what I heard.

That's funny considering the PacNW organizer's do more events than almost any other region and have had the best club rally event how many year's running?

I read this as a "they don't play by our rule..." kinda thing. Oh well, we'll keep our road to ourselves!
 

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>Based on the Competitor Evaluation Reports and the Steward's
>Report received for the 2003 event,

Curious, how many CER's is that? I've hardly ever filled one out for anybody but STPR. There the incentive is your free breakfast tickets. I think it should be a requirement for each competiting team to submit at least one at each event.
 

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Christian,

Personally, I hope WILD WEST rejects the idea of becoming an "observed" ClubRally in 2004, and would like the organizers to stay away from the ProRally Series all together.

Wild West is a great event. The nonsense always comes from..........elsewhere.

Rich Smith

Vive le "Pro-le-Ralliat"
 

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>Not sure if that was the case but that's what I heard.

That is not the case. Rally America provided operational assistance, including a review of the spectator safety plan.

I can't be 100% sure that the timing equipment was used, but I think I would remember if it wasn't. The start clocks certainly were used.

Rally America did not do scoring, as I remember.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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>Personally, I hope WILD WEST rejects the idea of becoming an
>"observed" ClubRally in 2004, and would like the organizers
>to stay away from the ProRally Series all together.

Ok. If so, I'd recommend you direct that sentiment to the organizers.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
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Christian:

This is helpful, but it does not help any other organizer avoid pitfalls. Maybe the FastTrack info will be more explicit, but it has not been in the past.

Wild West has been run for years, what part of the organizational structure has declined to the point where it is no longer acceptable?

It is very important that we all openly share our learning even when they are negative.

Take a note from a very well run Club Rally - The Cadillac Forest Rally. The Chairman openly asked for constructive criticism before and after the event. Despite hearing things he did not want to hear he was open to suggestions and the event, a first run event, came off very well.

To be successful we need to collaborate on our learnings. The PRB is the tool for the dissemination of the information. Please ensure the rally community can learn from our successes and failures, whether it be an accident, a new time card, or a weakness in an events structure.

Mike
 

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CER's for logbooks

>I think it should be a requirement for
>each competiting team to submit at least one at each event.

CARS has this one figured already.
It is a requirement in Canada to submit CERs in order to receive your logbook back, something that should be done in the US. Without the logbooks being collected at scrutineering ,held during the event and noted post event, there is no record of the car post event (i.e. rollovers, cage or structural damage,...) and the logbook is an incomplete record.
Yes, it is a pain as a competitor to have to chase down the steward to hand in your evaluation to get logbook back, especially if you DNF and elect to skip out on waiting for an award's ceremony, but the advantage gained in recording potentially significan saftey issues to be addressed outweighs the nuisance caused.
 

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RE: A new information request, I love wild west but....

I love the roads and the people at wild west and the Pacific North West in Genral. But I don't like the FIA service rules. I filled out my CER reflecting that. I always fill out my CER. Comunication goes both ways, or it is suppose to, and I am only responsible for my end.
 

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>Based on the Competitor Evaluation Reports and the Steward's
>Report received for the 2003 event, the Performance Rally
>Board felt that the event was not meeting the organizational
>standards for a ProRally event, and voted to invite the Wild
>West Rally to be an observed ClubRally event for 2004, for
>possible inclusion into the ProRally Championship in 2005.
>
>(Edit) Added: This will be in the December Fastrack Minutes.
>
>- Christian
>
>Bjorn Christian Edstrom
>www.christianedstrom.com

It isn't that hard for me to believe that the CER's were negative. Having to be teched by Thursday and then not being finished until late Sunday is a bunch more time off than I thought was needed. And I live less than 2 hours away.

The event itself, the actual rallying, was great.

I'm sure that the organisers of WW are not going to take kindly to being removed. And if they aren't up to "organisational standards" then who is? This is the same group that actually DID put on a WRC event in the 80's.

I hope for the sake of a balanced schedule that this decision is reconsidered.
 

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FIA service rules

>I don't like the FIA service rules.

FIA service rules seem to be written for WRC teams who have dozens of mechanics per car. The limited resources and staffing available to most ProRally teams make getting any major service repair impossible in the short 20 minute services mandated by FIA and cause some teams to DNF that could have continued with more reasonable sevicetime.
If we don't have WRC budgets or crews, we shouldn't have FIA service time allowances.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks Christian,

So now that the ProRallyBoard has unilaterally decided to terminate the 25 year tradition of SCCA ProRally in the northwest, I've got to ask, is this any way to treat a partner?

I don't believe that the SCCA can succeed if they allow a self-anointed committee to unilaterally make critical operational and marketing decisions based on backroom anecdotes and barroom innuendo. A successful sanctioning organization must operate in a professional manner using clearly defined procedures to resolve disagreements between partners.

Since the Northwest Region safely and successfully organized a dozen ClubRally events in 2003, the suggestion that we operate the Wild West as a ClubRally for "observation" seems disingenuous to say the least. What more do you need to observe?

I only have one vote on the Wild West organizing committee, but my vote is to work with our sponsors to identify a sanctioning partner we can trust for 2004.


Jim Culp
wildwestrally.com
 
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