Special Stage Forums banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From the feature story currently on specialstage.com:

Lauchlin added, ... "I've heard this will be the best field ever on U.S. soil."

Really?

This must mean that there will be at least four full works WRC teams competing in the event or, perhaps, the World Championship Olympus and POR rallies did not actually take place.

Doug Woods
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
Doug,

We know such a statement isn't true but the frame of reference for many of those playing the game now is such that VietNam has no meaning, US Presidents have always been southerners, and gas has always cost well in excess of a buck a gallon. Oh well. x(

Kent Gardam
 

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
>We know such a statement isn't true but the frame of
>reference for many of those playing the game now is such
>that VietNam has no meaning, US Presidents have always been
>southerners, and gas has always cost well in excess of a
>buck a gallon. Oh well. x(

Kent:

What was I thinking? Thanks for reminding me. I totally forgot that rallying has only existed for, what is it now, 5 or 6 years?

Doug Woods
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
>>We know such a statement isn't true but the frame of
>>reference for many of those playing the game now is such
>>that VietNam has no meaning, US Presidents have always been
>>southerners, and gas has always cost well in excess of a
>>buck a gallon. Oh well. x(
>
>Kent:
>
>What was I thinking? Thanks for reminding me. I totally
>forgot that rallying has only existed for, what is it now, 5
>or 6 years?
>
>Doug Woods

Gargoyle!!! Two prune juices, STAT! :7 :+ :eek: :D }>

While you're at it, don't forget PPIHC 1987:
Walter Rohrl
Ari Vatanen
Andrea Zanussi
Shekhar & Yvonne Mehta
Allesandro and Paulo Allesandreini
Rodney Millen
Jochi Kleindt
Doug Shepherd
John Crawford
Chad DiMarco
Heikki Krolikowski
Earl the Dead Cat ...
Oh, sorry - I didn't mean to drift off there


Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I have to admit that I have zero knowledge of domestic rallying beyond 5 years ago. I've watched WRC on TV since before I had my drivers licence (21 yrs ago), but I never knew much about SCCA ProRally. I remember a number of years ago linking to Ben's Rally page and thinking, "This looks boring, there's no WRC in here," and so I went back to the international sites for a long time until I just happened to see Ojibwe 3 years ago while visiting my sister in Bimidje. Now I'm (very very slowly) building a car for ClubRally.

Years ago I visited my roommate's parents one Christmas in Ohio and saw his dad's and his brother's colection of MGs. His brother, Phil pointed proudly at his MGB-GT rally car. I was too clueless at the time to realize what he meant and assumed it was his TSD car.

So, I hear reminiscing about POR all the time, especially from Mad Mike. I still know nothing about it. It sounds like there are a large number of us who need a history lesson bad. If POR was so awesome, maye it is time for someone to resurrect it.

I had no idea that the USA was once on WRC calendars. Tell me more...

-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
789 Posts
Rod--Not only the USA (Olympus and POR) but Canada (Rideau Lakes and Criterium) also featured "world Rally teams", although, if I recall, the World Rally Championship for makes and drivers was not "official" until the late Seventies or very early eighties.
 

·
3/14=my 42nd rally anniversary
Joined
·
3,979 Posts
Rod!

POR is alive and kicking, it's just being offered wearing a different dress these days. It's now titled the "Lake Superior Pro Rally" (LSPR) since the Detroit Region SCCA owns the name Press On Regardless but are no longer sanctioning stage rallies. I ran POR in 1979 - it was headquartered in Houghton. I was involved with POR a few times as CMC Motorsports, Inc. Crew Chief - it was headquartered in Houghton. This will be my third consecutive LSPR - each have been headquartered in Houghton. Shoot, Mary Jane and I honeymooned in Houghton (it's WEIRD driving through the town when NO rally cars are there). The packaging has changed but the rally is pretty much the same - except for the glorius days of the earliest PORs when the events were true marathons (starting and ending in Detroit but visiting the UP all the same) and some were FIA events.

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
RE: Kent's link suggestion

Whoa...That was a nice distraction with heaps of cool photos. I'm ready for a beer now. Some of the self-proclaimed old farts must be older than I was envisioning, as much of that photo documentation is plus or minus 3 years of my time in Kindergarten in Toledo, OH.

So, does LSPR share any roads with the old POR?

Aside from family trips to Makinac Island, my only UP experience was skiing the Red Earth Loppet near Marquette a couple of times. That was freakin' cold but immensely scenic.

-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Wow! I had no idea. Wish I could go this year. I need to put it on the calendar now for next year. I'll skip the USGP next year and trade that weekend pass for Houghton!
-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
RE: Kent's link suggestion

Hey, I went to kindergarten in Toledo (at DeVeaux) way back in '55 but I'm still here (Toledo that is, not kindergarten).

Kent Gardam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
RE: Kent's link suggestion

No way! I've probably started leaf fires in your neighborhood. I went to DeVeaux through 8th grade in '79, the last year before they turned the whole place into a big junior high. I used to live on Rushland Ave. My parents still live in Toledo, so I get up there at least every other year.
-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

·
just another old phart
Joined
·
2,258 Posts
The old stomping grounds

So rearrange your calendar, fly up to visit your parents before LSPR (they'll appreciate it) and then we can ride up to Houghton together. I'll be codriving for Scott Harvey in the club rallies. Oh by the way, by 79 I was gone but I used to live on Portsmouth only a few blocks away.

Kent Gardam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
RE: The old stomping grounds

I'm out of town the next 3 weekends, leaving my wife to deal with kids that are 1 and 3 years old. Moreover, my parents are visiting us here on LSPR weekend. When I do go to LSPR, it will probably be with Mad Mike so that he doesn't have such a lonely tow, unless I go really crazy and enter a car there myself...

-Rod Van Koughnet
Tulsa, OK
 

·
straight at T
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
>Rod--Not only the USA (Olympus and POR) but Canada (Rideau
>Lakes and Criterium) also featured "world Rally teams",
>although, if I recall, the World Rally Championship for
>makes and drivers was not "official" until the late
>Seventies or very early eighties.

World Championship for Makes started in 1973, the drivers' championship started in 1979, I think.

North American WRC events:

1973 POR
1974 Rideau Lakes
1974 POR
1977 Criterium de Quebec
1978 Criterium de Quebec
1979 Criterium de Quebec
1986 Olympus
1987 Olympus
1988 Olympus

(I believe I got the dates correct...)

A number of earlier events were on the international calendar, and got international entries.

Adrian
 

·
Old Fart
Joined
·
560 Posts
You should add 1972 POR. Won by Gene Henderson in a Jeep Wagoneer, the first all-wheel drive vehicle to win a WRC event.

Ooops. Reread your post. According to your info, Makes Championship started in 1973. I know that in 1972 and earlier, there was some World Championship for Manufacturers. POR was definitely part of that Championship along with Monte cArlo, RAC, Swedish, 1000 Lakes, Safari, etc.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!
 

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
>A number of earlier events were on the international
>calendar, and got international entries.

Adrian:

Correct. There were a number of FIA International rallies, the most important of which was the Canadian Winter Rally, which was nominally the most important rally in Canada from about 1969 (post Shell 4000) up to 1973 (pre Rideau Lakes).

However, there were two other events that were, in fact, part of the unofficial World Rally Championship. The 1972 POR was part of the FIA International Championship for Manufacturers (the forerunner to the WRC for Manufacturers). This series was considered by the manufacturers as their World Rally Championship. That is the reason that Lancia sent Kallstrom/Davenport in the Lancia Fulvia to the 1972 POR.

Throughout the 1960s, there was also an unofficial World Rally Championship for Manufacturers (perhaps run by the RAC, not the FIA) which included the Monte Carlo, Safari, Shell 4000, RAC and one or two other events that I cannot recall at the moment. Once again, this was one of the reasons that Ford, Citroen, BMC and others send factory cars to the Shell 4000.

Doug Woods
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
That, of course, was back when

1. A number of smaller European manufacturers had not yet been squeezed out of America by protectionist policies under the guise of the DOT and EPA.

2. Most vehicle owners and buyers were able to discriminate vehicles by more criteria than cost, appearance, and leasing plan, so mechanical durability and dynamic agility were important things for a manufacturer to show.

3. Rallying was done in a style that really showed the abilities of a car in something like real-world trim and (very difficult) real-world circumstances.

The challenge in a 60s Shell 4000 - a very significant event on the international calendar with no less than Roger Clark on the entry list - was just getting from Montreal to Vancouver through some late fall mud and ice choked roads at a pretty brisk pace and essentially without rest. In some ways, now that you can walk into a dealer, buy a Ford Focus, and drive it London-Sydney (or London-Mexico, or Peking-Paris, or almost anywhere really) on largely tarmac roads at pretty high speeds with little risk of causing the CD player to skip, rallying is by needs a different sport. Still great - still my passion - but different.

In fact, Doug, your heyday of say, winning POR 1973 was a lot more like modern rallying than like the 1964 Shell 4000. Or do you think it was somewhere in between? Longer events than now, of course, but centred on one area with more service than the treks of the 60s and more focus on how fast you get to the finish than watching your competitors get stuck near Saskatoon. Or not?

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics (which never age).
 

·
1973 WRC POR
Joined
·
2,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
>In fact, Doug, your heyday of say, winning POR 1973 was a
>lot more like modern rallying than like the 1964 Shell 4000.
>Or do you think it was somewhere in between?

Andrew:

The 1973 POR was essentially identical to an SCCA Pro Rally of today, except that it was equivalent to about 5 consecutive Pro Rallies! In other words, this one event was equivalent to running half of the current Pro Rally Championship, without a chance to rebuild the cars. How many current vehicles/teams would last such an event?

The 1973 POR had 85 special stages over three days. It was very similar in concept to the RAC Rallies of the 1970s. No central servicing, which meant that your service crews had to be continuously on the move to stay ahead of the rally.

However, it was by no means an endurance event which one could drive at reduced speed and hope to do well. I can vouch for the fact that we ran every stage flat out, using pace notes. The cars were, of course, not as technically advanced as today. However, there is little doubt in my mind, that the top drivers then, such a Walter Boyce, John Buffum, Jim Walker, Taisto Heinonen, etc. would be doing much better today, than our current domestic drivers are doing, against the British rally invasion.

Doug Woods
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
I knew that it was longer, but I had no idea how much longer! And I certainly agree that those drivers were (are) world-class.

Did you run recce for the pace notes in the race Toyota (which I note TTE lists as their first international victory!)

And I know that Walter is around somewhere, but what happened to Taisto? I'd sure like to sit down with either (and of course with you some time).

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the history of physics.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top