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Discussion Starter #1
I want to run H and thinking about what to build...

914 or K Ghia? Those have rally history right?

A. I want to run something that puts a smile on my face
B. I do not care about being real fast or whipping anybody in H, just want to putt at the back in something fun and different till I learn how to drive faster.
C. Want something I can get parts for that won't kill the pocketbook, would rather spend on entry fees than parts.
D. I'm not a huge guy so room-wise in a smaller car I should be fine.

Any thoughts on these two cars- for/against? similiar suggestions

btw can you actually import an old Escort easily/ what would one of these run? 10-12k? And, could I get parts?


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For fan appeal... 914. It says "Porsche". For most fans (not those who read Special Stage) there is little difference between a 914 and a 911, they are both Porsches.

For reliability, the KG might be better. The 914 had that damned early Bosch FI that gave mechanics fits.

Either would probably be bog slow.

BTW, I have a friend in Duluth who is trying to sell a 914, cheap. Though he has been trying to resurrect it for street use, it might best be considered as a complete parts car. It has four new Cooper tires (the only thing he could find in the right size).

Email me for details: headcheese-at-winktimber-dot-com
 

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Sorry..there is a big difference between a 914 and a 911.

While some may argue they are not both Porches (nonsense), the 914 is mid engine and the 911 rear engine.This is huge in motorsports since the 911 will oversteer more than that 914.

Both are expensive; the 911 more so.

If you got to have a Porsche, I would go with the 911 since it has a richer rally history than the 914.

I like the Karman idea the best!

Cheers.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I could actually make either of these real fun, if not excessively fast. The way I'm thinking a VW can be run with twin carbs and going by the notion of doing what COULD be done "back then" then that's not really very limiting cause Gene Berg and Vittone at EMPI had some wicked-fast bugs and Ghia's even back then.





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Discussion Starter #6
Sombody might beat me to it, but from a historical and competitive stand, this is a strong argument: http://www.rallybugs.com/

Nobody could say the history isn't there for a bug to be a cool H car, I just like the lower profile of the Ghia or 914, but as a VW nut a bug makes perfect sense. Notchback's are hard to come by....building a Salzburg 1302 would be a gas. A 1776 with twin 40's wouldn't be all that slow, if not as accurate. Twin carbs were available and my mechanic was running 6 second 1/8miles in 1971. hmmmmm.

or a 2399cc G2 club-beetle? }>
 

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>I want to run H and thinking about what to build...
>
>914 or K Ghia? Those have rally history right?
yeah, really really extensive rally history.
>
>A. I want to run something that puts a smile on my face

any good car well prepared will do that, some will do it better.

>B. I do not care about being real fast or whipping anybody
>in H, just want to putt at the back in something fun and
>different till I learn how to drive faster.

How will you learn when you chosen tool has a design completely innappropriate, unless by the anbalogy of ANYTHING will be better when you finally stop with either of these?
Sorta like the logic Hitting your thumb with the hammer is sooooooooooo good because it feels so good when it stops...

>C. Want something I can get parts for that won't kill the
>pocketbook, would rather spend on entry fees than parts.

The demand for Karman Ghia and Volkswagen 914, yes VW 914 was how the car was born and homologated, would make me shy away from these period.

>D. I'm not a huge guy so room-wise in a smaller car I should
>be fine.

from a packaging and installation point of view they're still a pain, and they are remarkable in their weak shells. Ask Dave Clark about bending one while standing up in a west coast non rusty 914.
Mid or rear engine is fine untill the limit of traction is reached so if you stick to tarmac events you'll be happy, use either of these and you'll eventually learn a big lesson.
>
>Any thoughts on these two cars- for/against? similiar
>suggestions
>
>btw can you actually import an old Escort easily/ what would
>one of these run? 10-12k? And, could I get parts?
I have just gotten a couple of emails saying anything 25 years+ is no problemo.
I have seen plenty of LHD MkII Escorts for between $700 to 1100 depending on spec.
Rally ready cars can be as high as 10,000 to $20,000+ again depending.

Motors are here, gearkits aree a email away, rear axles are on them or here, sheetmetal is available as is glass and importantly if you are saying you want to _actually_ learn, an excellent book "Ford Escort Rally Preparation"

You are never going to find REAL rally parts at the Piggly-Wiggly or at PepBoys so that is equal in the equation, the dynamics of the car and the availability of info on what you are aiming at is critical.

Get a car without any pre-exsisting vices and something you can hold on to while you eventually learn.

(nudge nudge it starts with F)
>
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>http://www.treesandturtles.com/





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Am I following you with "F" for Ford?

So I need to get a 25+ year old euro Escort to easily get it over here? what are some good sources to find one? Is there anyone that I could get one through (here) - I've never imported a car.

So you think the 914 or Ghia shells are too weak? What about the (vw)bugs?










http://www.treesandturtles.com/
 

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Here is my Escort:
http://www.drizzle.com/~glenn/twink/

Pretty much all you need is a shipping company.

You'd need to pay local sales or use tax when you register it (WA state wanted a receipt in US$). And of course pay some tiny amount of duty.

EPA form 3250 (code E, >21yrs old)
http://www.hansenglobal.com/images/epa_form.pdf

DOT form HS-7 (use box 1, >25yrs old)
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/hs799short.pdf

Best place to look for UK Escorts is Classic Ford magazine (EWA cars sells it). You can find a lot of good shells, project cars. JasonLepley.co.uk sometimes has good cars too.

A good place to look for Australian Escorts (the Ford kind)
http://www.autotrader.com.au/

Well prepped rally cars are bigger $ as JV says.

Glenn

PS 914/Ghia - GROUND CLEARANCE!?
 

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>Am I following you with "F" for Ford?
Well V is pronounced as 'f' in German, but that ain't it.

ESCORT MkI and MkII are still the coolest and best balanced cars especially in their Gp4 trim in the history of the known world.
>
>So I need to get a 25+ year old euro Escort to easily get it
>over here? what are some good sources to find one? Is there
>anyone that I could get one through (here) - I've never
>imported a car.

Well the question is were is a 'ro-ro' terminal nearby??
You're somewhere in the deepå south so find out where Walenius lines or whoever it is, wait try this
[ftp://jvab:@jvab.ffwd.us/eu-us-ea.gif]
or

http://www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/Regions/Americas/routes/eu-us-ea.gif

And all you need to do next is read and speak Swedish to get far more affordable Escots than in UK of Finland.
Whos gonna build it?
>
>So you think the 914 or Ghia shells are too weak?
Eeerrrr Yeah.
What
>about the (vw)bugs?
Same.
and bad dynamics for gravel, BAD BAD BAD!
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>http://www.treesandturtles.com/





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Glenn: Droooool. Ok, I'm officially jealous. You have a Cortina also do you not? nice.

JVL: OK, give me some more to go on besides "no" on a bug. I appreciate the opinion, and that's why I posted, not just for everybody to say yeah dude. Just seems like they'd go around corners nice for reasonable dollars.
1.Bugs are everywhere.
2.cheap and plentyful bodyparts (cause I have no dilusions about smacking a couple trees at some point)
3. Strong motors are also easy/affordable to acquire/build.
4. the suspension may be ancient, but known quantity.
I know bugs aren't "sexy" or super-exotic Rally cars, but the different factor's pretty high, I don't see (or really don't see) why nobody's rallying one.

I guess I can see the clearance situation being a problem on a 914 and Ghia. So I guess that questions answered...

so what's ballpark for a decent MK1 or MK2 escort, not prepped just decent starting point= good shell and motor/tranny? Maybe I shouldn't be daunted by getting one over here...I'll start looking in the spring at what I can find. It's good to have this forum to get opinions on the situation and if I ever look at importing a car I'll sure come here for advice on that. Just looking at options, I really want to run H in something. An escort would be cool.

RX-3?
Opel Manta?
fairlady?

too many choices- but If I don't start something... you can't finish unless you start. (sigh)
 

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>Glenn: Droooool. Ok, I'm officially jealous. You have a
>Cortina also do you not? nice.

how many nice cars SHOULD one man have, lets go gang up on hgim, hold him down and zoom aroud riiiiiipin up his yard, yeeeeeehaaaw!!!
>
>JVL: OK, give me some more to go on besides "no" on a bug.
OK and I should remind you that I have a lot of expeience using VW PARTs, infact I have supplied or showed how to use VW parts in numerous OTHER carsinclusing Datsun L seires, Mitsu G54, Saab 2 liter 8v, Saab 16V, Saab (Ford) V4, and Opels.
I know aircooled stuff reasonably well.
Even supplied All the front a arms, hubs, knuckles, steering racks etc for the sick 2.7liter Turbo 4wd (and told him where to get the front diff) that the demented Dave la Toureete built way back, too bad Dave never paid for any of the stuff before he sold the car.....:(

I
>appreciate the opinion, and that's why I posted, not just
>for everybody to say yeah dude. Just seems like they'd go
>around corners nice for reasonable dollars.
>1.Bugs are everywhere.

Well not up here anymore.
>2.cheap and plentyful bodyparts (cause I have no dilusions
>about smacking a couple trees at some point
)
That's a plus, and the fact that YOU can swap the out is a Good thing.


>3. Strong motors are also easy/affordable to acquire/build.

Wrong. Type 1 cases are all long since 10 to 15 years ago whupped on and the cases are the weak link.
The cute little crank is forged steel but those cases are crap and upgrades are very expensive.
The cylinderhear combustion chamber is way open and detonation prone and that beats on the cases and the pooooooor little rod bearings.

>4. the suspension may be ancient, but known quantity.

Yeah but the short wheelbase and tall shell and above all the bad design of the rear engine which as soon as you give it a bit o' boot and you lose grip when cornering the rear end WILL want to lead.
Yeeeeeeehawwww!!
Even 911s were hard pressed to make results agains simple crude escorts. Too heavy, too weak and not enough poop even out of their 2.7
>I know bugs aren't "sexy" or super-exotic Rally cars, but
>the different factor's pretty high, I don't see (or really
>don't see) why nobody's rallying one.

Several people have done them and with some degree of sucess HERE, see it's all been done before, don't fall into that trap, make the results be the unique thing or the degree of fun.
>
>I guess I can see the clearance situation being a problem on
>a 914 and Ghia. So I guess that questions answered...
Too small, too short, too weak , poor visibility outward.
>
>so what's ballpark for a decent MK1 or MK2 escort, not
>prepped just decent starting point= good shell and
>motor/tranny?
A MkII could have a price from $750 for a roller to 3500, and transport from Sweden to Newark is in round figures $1000 if it runs. more if it's a roller.
Motors I have seen from £350 to $4000. trannies as low as 750 for a real close ratio Ford typ9 5 speed.


Maybe I shouldn't be daunted by getting one
>over here...I'll start looking in the spring at what I can
>find. It's good to have this forum to get opinions on the
>situation and if I ever look at importing a car I'll sure
>come here for advice on that. Just looking at options, I
>really want to run H in something. An escort would be cool.
>
>RX-3?
Junky shells and bad bad steering, may as well drag a stick on the rear tire of the side you want to turn in......
>Opel Manta?
Well..........I'd look for an Ascona first.


>fairlady?
Z car????
Shirley you jest.
>
>too many choices- but If I don't start something... you
>can't finish unless you start. (sigh)

right, and a good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
>
>





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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> how many nice cars SHOULD one man have, lets go gang up on hgim, hold him down and zoom aroud riiiiiipin up his yard, yeeeeeehaaaw!!!

I already did that in my tractor....

The Escort cost me a lot less than a nice Lotus Cortina.

I'd echo what John said about the balance of the Escorts --- you have to drive one to understand. Even my car with the leaf spring and "sea legs" rear shock arrangement (ie the crudest setup) and every corner is poetry in motion.

I think a good point for Escorts are that RALLY parts are plentiful in Europe. e.g. http://www.raldes.co.uk/2003/escortrwd.htm
Shipping pushes the prices up, but still the supply is plentiful.

I think a 510 with a bigger L motor or Z car would be fun.
People think my Cortina is a 510 anyway.

Glenn
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I'm probably showing my ignorance, but it almost seems getting a nice 510 would be harder than getting an escort over here.

There's a logbooked 240 sitting in my friend's garage that I could probably get, however that nose seems soooo long. I guess I coul get used to it. downside on that one would be a)I'd have to listen to him forever about how I talked him out of it and b) I'd have to put the stock motor back in it to run H I think-not sure.

Well, you guys definately have me wanting an escort after doing a little research... the only thing that makes me hesitant is parts and sheetmetal. I'd probably wait till I could find one with an extensive spares package (fill that sea container uppp!) to try to get extra goodies with the car. Would I have any problem registering one for the road? What if it's NOT 25+years? Is that a big problem?




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I had no problems registering mine, beyond needing the receipt converted to US$ for the tax.

If you try and bring one in that is < 25 years customs (theoretically) will hold the car (you'd be lying if you checked box 7, and there is no other easy way to get the car in... read all of the other boxes.)

You can beat the system, but there are risks.

Glenn
 

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>I'm probably showing my ignorance, but it almost seems
>getting a nice 510 would be harder than getting an escort
>over here.

510s while nice, and I've helped stack of buddies with them and still have my first rally buddy with his, now with rack and pinion steering 14 years after I started harping on him, and also a great FJ20 motor, are still not the same as a good ESCORT, no the same balance, waaaaaaaaaay heavier, and horrrrible slow steering.
>
>There's a logbooked 240 sitting in my friend's garage that I
>could probably get, however that nose seems soooo long. I
>guess I coul get used to it.
Nobody else could.
Inline 6s are a real minus, really wrong balance and waaaaay too short, there good for cruising back asphalt roads, not rally where nimbleness and stabilty and VISIBILITY are vital.



downside on that one would be
>a)I'd have to listen to him forever about how I talked him
>out of it and b) I'd have to put the stock motor back in it
>to run H I think-not sure.
You could just kill him.
Warn him first, amke it conditional so that you're fair:
"If I hear you moan one more time............"
>
>Well, you guys definately have me wanting an escort after
>doing a little research... the only thing that makes me
>hesitant is parts and sheetmetal. I'd probably wait till I
>could find one with an extensive spares package (fill that
>sea container uppp!) to try to get extra goodies with the
>car.
The map was for Roll-on/roll off service so you could shove some junk thats bulky in the car but North Atlantic rates are only around $150 per cubic meter plus stoooopid paper work. You don't need a container.
But sheetmetal and windsheil glass would be really smart to have on hand. But its cheeeeeeeep in UK or where I get it.



Would I have any problem registering one for the road?
probably not
>What if it's NOT 25+years? Is that a big problem?

Depends.................... shsssssssssssssssss.

GET ON IT!!!!
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>http://www.treesandturtles.com/





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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> But sheetmetal and windsheil glass would be really smart to have on hand. But its cheeeeeeeep in UK or where I get it.

I have a secret source for windshield glass in Australia (a manufacturer). I bought over 2 Escort and 2 Cortina windshield shipped for some crazy small amount. Stuff can be found if you make the effort.

Glenn
 

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Ok now that you have settled on an Escort I'll thorw in my 2 cents. Have you considered a Volvo Amazon they are here already and they are sturdy as hell plus they can be made damn fast. Ok John I now an Escort is probably better but you know I have weakness for Volvos.

Tom Grossmann

PS then again I liked my Bultaco
 

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> Ok now that you have settled on an Escort I'll thorw in my
>2 cents. Have you considered a Volvo Amazon they are here
>already and they are sturdy as hell plus they can be made
>damn fast. Ok John I now an Escort is probably better but
>you know I have weakness for Volvos.
>
> Tom Grossmann

With a B20, yeah! Relatively easy to find . . . cheap . . . etc.
 
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