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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I'm in the process of building a 76' SR5 Corolla to use in the CARS western division. I live in the U.S. but Calgary is close and I love going to Canada! This will be my first rally car so I have a few questions regarding its construction. After researching the net for months this is my parts list:

1. Terratrip 202+
2. co-driver map light (brand?)
3. Corbeau clubman seats
4. Harnesses (5 or 6 point?, Brand?)
5. Foot rest for co driver
6. Dead pedal for myself
7. Helmit boxes
8. First Aid kit (supplier?)
9. Spill kit ( " "?)
10. Safety triangles (" ")
11. extinguisher (brand?,supplier?)
12. Hood pins
13. Driving lights (Brand, Model?)
14. Skid plates
15. Steel brake lines (supplier?)
16. Tokico Illumina adjustable shocks (can't get DMS, what about proflex?)
17. Rear shocks (brand?)
18. Roll cage
19. All the safety gear suit helmit etc...
20. strut bar
21. Rally tires (sylverstone 14")
22. Performance brake pads (brand?)
23. Limited slip
24. momo steering wheel
25. optima battry
26. various gauges, toggles and cut off swithes (supplier?)


What is unnesecary or needed on this list?, what would you change? I could also use some advice about things I should bring to a rally like; fuel, tools, spare parts, tires etc...

The motor for this car is a 2tg twin cam I had built that has around 140-160 hp. I plan on dry sumping it and putting the resevoir in the trunk along with the battry. I will also seam weld the chasis and reinforce the suspension (any tips on suspension reinforcement?)

Thank you for the help I look forward to competing even though I won't really be competitive!! Oh well, its all about having a good time with good people anyway.

Thanks,

Culver
 

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Culver

Have you talked to Peter Hill yet? As you may know he has rallied one successfully for the last 3 years or so. You don't need much to start, keep your money for entry fees, don't spend too much on a car you may wrap around a tree first time out. My comments, suggestions below.

1. Terratrip 202+ Yes, or a Brantz International 2
2. co-driver map light (brand?) Yes, cheapest.
3. Corbeau clubman seats. Stock seats are much cheaper, go to the boneyard and see what's available.
4. Harnesses (5 or 6 point?, Brand?) 5 point OK if not too reclined in seat, again cheapest that have a current FIA certification.
5. Foot rest for co driver. make one, a bit of tube mounted to the roll cage leg.
6. Dead pedal for myself. Again, make it.
7. Helmit boxes. Waste of money, get an SUV cargo net.
8. First Aid kit (supplier?) St John Ambulance or your local safety store.
9. Spill kit ( " "?) Not needed in Canada
10. Safety triangles (" ") Cheapest, light weight.
11. extinguisher (brand?,supplier?) Again, cheapest!
12. Hood pins. Not needed, save your money.
13. Driving lights (Brand, Model?) Used, Hella, PIAA etc. Lots on ebay.
14. Skid plates. Make it, either Aluminium 0.25" or UHMW plastic.
15. Steel brake lines (supplier?). Assume you mean the flex hoses, cover them with a rubber hose to protect them.
16. Tokico Illumina adjustable shocks (can't get DMS, what about proflex?) Cost more than the car!!
17. Rear shocks (brand?) Ask Peter
18. Roll cage. Find a good local fabricator who specialises in cage work, look at his work and muke ABSOLUTELY sure that he can read your rule book and will build it to comply with CARS rules and not to some spec that he thinks is OK. Be aware, some roll cage guys (especially those that are not used to rally) seem to think they know best.
19. All the safety gear suit helmit etc... Buy the best you can afford.
20. strut bar. Save your money to start with, you don't need one to finish an event.
21. Rally tires (sylverstone 14") Any rally tire is a must have, try to buy used ones to start with.
22. Performance brake pads (brand?) Once you can drive hard enough to ruin stock pads get better ones, until then. . . .
23. Limited slip. Does the LSD from an '85 corolla GTS fit?
24. momo steering wheel
25. optima battry. Waste of money, you won't go any faster!!
26. various gauges, toggles and cut off swithes (supplier?)

As you can tell, I advocate using your money for entering events, get experience first and maybe build a better car next. Ask Chad, he'll tell you the same thing.

Martin
www.rallyequipment.com/alsrally
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Martin,

I have seen Peter Hill's name before I think he drives a 72' or 73' corolla, do you know how I could get a hold of him?

Your advice is good, I'm sure the cost of events can be staggering when adding up all the expenses. An 85' GTS LSD will work if I can find it!

Is there any rally schools in Canada that are any good? The U.S. schools are very expensive. I would also like to find some books that cover rally driving techniques. I've raced motocross and enduro for a few years, attended a driving school in calgary and autocrossed but I know I have PLENTY to learn about rally driving. What do you guys do for practice? I've thought about asking local ranchers if I could use thier roads for practice, spend a day fencing for a day of practicing on a closed road seems like a good deal if I could make it happen!

Culver
 

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Try [email protected] not sure if it's up to date. TSD events are good practice, not sure about the rancher idea.

For a book, try "Porsche high performance driving hand book" by Vic Elford. It has a lot of good rally driving stuff in it.
 

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Hello Culver,

Martin's advice is good -- spend the money on the safety equipment and events. Don't go overboard on all the fancy stuff until you've done a few events.

The *annual* Calgary Rally School is next weekend - How's your schedule?

http://www.vertigosport.com/school2.html

And of course there is 3 events in May/June in Western Canada which can all use volunteers - another great way to learn and see what others are doing.

Shawn Bishop




Rocky Mountain Rally
http://www.rockymountainrally.com
Calgary, Alberta
May 23-24, 2003
 

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>Hello Culver,
>
>Martin's advice is good -- spend the money on the safety
>equipment and events. Don't go overboard on all the fancy
>stuff until you've done a few events.

Agreed, with a couple of comments:

1. Put in racing seats, don't use stock seats. Being in a racing seat saved me from injury at Maine last year.

2. You might want to make sure your car is SCCA-legal as well. That would mean racing seats, spill kit, and hood pins are necessary. I think, if you were to run an SCCA event, they would have a problem with a US registered car that was running on a CARS logbook - in fact, I'm not sure about how CARS would deal with the logbooking either. Ask CARS.

Adrian
 

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>
>1. Put in racing seats, don't use stock seats. Being in a
>racing seat saved me from injury at Maine last year.
>
>2. You might want to make sure your car is SCCA-legal as
>well. That would mean racing seats, spill kit, and hood pins
>are necessary. I think, if you were to run an SCCA event,
>they would have a problem with a US registered car that was
>running on a CARS logbook - in fact, I'm not sure about how
>CARS would deal with the logbooking either. Ask CARS.


Adrian,

What are the SCCA rules regarding seats? FIA approved or similar? I had someone ask me about fibreglass seats which do not have an FIA sticker. There is a difference in cost.

Thanks

Shawn
 

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Hi Clint,
Read both CARS and the SCCA rules and meke sure you can do events in both places, when you get the bug you'll want to do events everywhere.
There are only a couple of small points different.
Always keep all options open, a good tip when building and also driving.
Canada is has fun events and is millenia ahead on local sposorship and promotion compared with the incompetent bunglers running SCCA, but out here at the end of I-90, we have some events worth doing, too.

Hello,
>
>I'm in the process of building a 76' SR5 Corolla to use in
>the CARS western division. I live in the U.S. but Calgary is
>close and I love going to Canada! This will be my first
>rally car so I have a few questions regarding its
>construction. After researching the net for months this is
>my parts list:
>
> 1. Terratrip 202+
No get a Brantz International II or IIs, much easier to use and set and see, you can call me, I'm ordering a bunch for some newbies here in Seattle. Get 2 proximity probes.


> 2. co-driver map light (brand?)

Avanti
> 3. Corbeau clubman seats

Forza II is a good all round seat, SCCA has just banned OEM reclineable seats, but curiously left aftermarket recliners, many which use the same recline mechanism as Euro OEMs, allowable.
> 4. Harnesses (5 or 6 point?, Brand?)

Call Racer Wholesale, get the 5 point cam lock belts they sell,H pattern shoulders , and specify clip in ends for the lap belts.

> 5. Foot rest for co driver
Get thee to a Truck wrecking yard, the aluminium perforated no-slip steps that many semis use make great footrests.

> 6. Dead pedal for myself
Mitsubishi Starion, $5 at better wrecking yards everywhere

> 7. Helmit boxes

Yeah Cargo nets from some ford Aerostars are neat-o.
> 8. First Aid kit (supplier?)
> 9. Spill kit ( " "?)

> 10. Safety triangles (" ")
Look in Volvos, or at the truck wrecking yard.

> 11. extinguisher (brand?,supplier?)
> 12. Hood pins

Shucks had some for like $10 a year ago, and they are required in SCCA.
> 13. Driving lights (Brand, Model?)
I like Bosch big ones but these days there isn't much night rally so you might survive with only 2.


> 14. Skid plates
1/4" Aluminum is a good compromise, 3/16 is too thing and deforms too redialy, 3/8s is heavier and thicker than needed except by the guys who want to imagine therir stages are like Acropolis.

It is really a sump guard, protecting the oil pan from rocks.
> 15. Steel brake lines (supplier?)
I say make your own with "reusable" ends, not pre-fab crimped ends. look in catalogs.

> 16. Tokico Illumina adjustable shocks (can't get DMS, what
>about proflex?)

Don't waste your time with rubbish. Use 41mm Bilstein inserts.
> 17. Rear shocks (brand?)
50mm Bilstein
> 18. Roll cage

yeah be careful here, look for good photos and ask folks if they will do the cage exactly like in the photos.

BE VERY CAREFUL, don't get fancy , think safety and think getting in and out and also think about supporting that flimsy POS bodyshell.
> 19. All the safety gear suit helmit etc...

Racer Wholesale for suit and helmet.

> 20. strut bar
fab it from roll bar tube flattenened on the end for a 3/8" tube welded perpindicular

> 21. Rally tires (sylverstone 14")

Naw..... get Black Rocket for better value

> 22. Performance brake pads (brand?)

Use the Toyota Pick up 4 piston Sumitomo cast iron calipers and believe it or not the OEM pads at the dealer are , or were, very good and very reasonably priced.

> 23. Limited slip

Shove in a Dana 30 rear axle out of a Volvo 240, and then add a 4.88:1 ring and pinion, and weld the diff.
> 24. momo steering wheel


I like that this is way down on your list..... should be.
> 25. optima battry

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............
> 26. various gauges, toggles and cut off swithes (supplier?)

Audi and GTI VW often have a nice triple OIL TEMP; OIL PRESSUE; VOLTS cluster, get that and the oil pressure sender, thats good enough.

Fuel and water temp are in the dash and all the guagees are reference only so who cares if they are super accurate, you're just looking for alarming conditions.
>
>
>What is unnesecary or needed on this list?, what would you
>change? I could also use some advice about things I should
>bring to a rally like; fuel, tools, spare parts, tires
>etc...
Bring everything you will need, don't bring stuff you don't have the time or the skills to change.
>
>The motor for this car is a 2tg twin cam I had built that
>has around 140-160 hp. I plan on dry sumping it

Why? Crazy idea, pointless unless that thing is making like 260+bhp.

and putting
>the resevoir in the trunk along with the battry. I will also
>seam weld the chasis and reinforce the suspension (any tips
>on suspension reinforcement?) Use steel, make your own links and control arms.
>
>Thank you for the help I look forward to competing even
>though I won't really be competitive!! Oh well, its all
>about having a good time with good people anyway.

With your background in moto-cross you'll be years ahead of 90% of the rest.
What classes and size did you ride?

Think about making you car into a 1985 KDX200, funner than hell and easy to live with reliability, eassy to drive and if you do beat on it, no problems, it'll go.

Are you like married to that shell?
can't find a 1980 Carolla?

ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THE _INEVITABLE_ CRASH DAMAGE.
You have spare doors and hoods and fenders? Front suspension?
Look in your local wrecking yards. Make sure there are donors BEFORE you prep.
Don't be dogmatic about any car model.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Culver
Hey and this really should be on Car Construction forum.






John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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Here's how the licensing works:

You are a US citizen (I assume). To run an SCCA sanctioned event you have to have an SCCA license. If you get a CARS license and then decide to run in an SCCA rally you have to get an SCCA license.

If you get an SCCA license you can run CARS rallies on it, however you do not score CARS points. To score CARS points you need a CARS license.

I've had a CARS license for the past few years and I'm a US citizen. I found out this year that you HAVE TO join the SCCA to run an SCCA rally. This fact pains me so much.....having to join the SCCA.

My car was logbooked in the US and I've run many CARS rallies without a problem. However, it is ALWAYS a question especially when the rules are different.

Brian
 

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>Adrian,
>
>What are the SCCA rules regarding seats? FIA approved or
>similar? I had someone ask me about fibreglass seats which
>do not have an FIA sticker. There is a difference in cost.
>
>Thanks
>
>Shawn

The rules basically say no OEM seats. Anything else appears to be allowed, although FIA seats are reccomended. The rules are online at http://www.scca.org/amateur/performance_rally/03rulebook/index.html - Article 5.4 deals with seats.

Adrian
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow! what a lot of help!

I didn't even see the other forums, I was too excited! I'll be more kosher next time.

I'm glad you guys pointed me in the right direction, before I was a little worried that I might get laughed at going the cheap route. This is good though, I'll be able to attend more events and have more fun by saving on the car build. Who knows maybe I'll race in Seattle, coincide a pearl jam concert with a rally and I'm there!

John,
I've been riding a 99 cr-250 since 99 and plan on buying a cr-450 next year, I've raced pro in Montana but that really doesn't mean anything. God didn't bless me with any extra talent, I realized this when I went to Washougal in 96' and was dominated by half the pack in amateur class! If I moved to Washington and could practice year round on a good bike I might do slightly better. The real fun with bikes is riding flat out on unknown trails with someone that pushes you, Montana is hard to beat for that. My hope is that rally offers a similar experience with less pain and hospital bills! BTW: I'm not married to that shell, but yeah there's a little chemistry going on.

Shawn,
I'll check the cars schedule, I'm sure I can work at one of the up coming events. My future co-driver and service guy would most likely want to come also. Who do I contact as far as becoming a course worker?

Well, I'll follow up on the leads everyone gave and hopefully I'll have a car going by Fall, I'm giddy with excitement.

Culver
 

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Clint,
OK so you are an honest guy, too. I like that. My self I was 250 moto-cross guy for years and that bit about being "ex-pert" in one place and just beating yer brains out for mid pack somewhere else takes me back to 71 in Northern California, where we had harder fields than the blow hard So-cal guys and I could do top 7-8th in Expert class and then in '72 I immigrated to Sweden and in my first SEASON finished 9th in one junior moto ONCE!!! OI! OI OI!

The thing is you have a real sense of surfaces and weight transfer even if you are just a good trail bike rider, you currrently KNOW more than 97% of the guys who start from car background,
the big problem is that you are accustomed to a machine which is on par with the WRC cars in terms of performance and handling, and beats the hell out of them in reliability terms, so you might be like me when I started: ABLE to drive with WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY more vigor and you'll want to beat this living piss outa the car and the car is ,relatively speaking now, don't get offended now, a major vile piece of shït. And you'll beat it to death.
Now all cars are POSs, even my really nice very well built Saab 96 is a POS, my Ford 4x4 Cosworth thing is a POS, so you gotta count on killing every component in it, brakes, hubs, clutch, gearbox driveshafts, diff, trailing arms, bodyshell, motormounts, transmounts, pistons, rods, on and on.......

So that's why I said make sure there are spares in the yard, it's getting hard here in Sleezattle finding junk 70s Japcrap, and out here there were sold stacks of the crap, I wonder how many spares you'll find in MT.

How far is it up to Calgary?


And listen, remember everything is relative OK, and cars are fun to beat on logging roads just because they are vile POSs and there soooooooo big pigs, it ain't the same as bikes where you can test yourself, with cars you mucking around with THEIR limits.
So don't worry about all the Subu-bitchy and Evo-buru clone junk out there, not in the West anyway, but think maybe about the shell.
It cost exactly the same to prepare a car which is basically more competitive and has good growth potential as it does to prepare a unsuitable dawg.


Finally, when I got back to USA in the early 80s I was going to college in Olympia and working at the local Husky shop since that's what I had ridden since 1970 (except a couple of years on KTM) and wanted to go do Washougal since everybody raved what a wide open crazy ass fun track it was, perfect for a crazy 500 class retired Pro guy like me who had spent all his time in Europe, and when I did go I took my 354cc Husqvarna (built to be the smallest legal Open class motor I could) and had a great time playing on what I percieved to be a "waaaaaay exciting fast 125 track, an ok 250 track but kinda tight and slow for a 500 track". My friends were appaled, but I said it's all relative to what you're used to seeing.

You wanna call some evening the number is in the profile thingie.

welcome aboard.



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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>I'll check the cars schedule, I'm sure I can work at one of
>the up coming events. My future co-driver and service guy
>would most likely want to come also. Who do I contact as far
>as becoming a course worker?

To work the Pacific Forest Rally (June 14), contact Shelley Wiedemann: [email protected]

Hope to see you rallying soon!

Paul
 

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As far as log books go, both CARS and SCCA accept eachother's. You're not allowed to have two log books for one car, even if it's competing in both countries, since it tracks things like significant event damage, minor warnings (fix this by the next rally) etc.

As far as licensing goes, to run in your country of residence, you need the license from that country. To contest a championship in either country, you need the license from that country. So, if you're resident in the US and want to enter events in both countries, you need an SCCA license. If you also want to contest a Canadian championship, you'd need a CARS license as well. If you want to run events only in Canada, but don't care about the championship, then as a US resident you can use either SCCA or CARS licenses.

As far as vehicle prep goes, both organizations have exemptions that allow a vehicle registered in the other country, running on a license from the other country, to comply with the preparation rules from the other country. That's not linked to which log book you have.

So, if you're contesting a championship, you need that country's license, and need to comply with that country's preparation rules. If you're just running for fun and experience, you can run under your home country's rules and license.

(One exception to all that: CARS requires turbo 4wd vehicles to comply with the CARS/FIA restrictor size, even if they're otherwise compliant to SCCA.)

Paul
 

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For the Rocky - May 23-24 call me .... but I've already got youon the list.

Hope you can make it.

Shawn



Rocky Mountain Rally
http://www.rockymountainrally.com
403.277.6382
Calgary, Alberta
May 23-24, 2003
 

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Check the club4ag.com to find A corolla GTS rear end. it seems that the 86-87' years are a bit more prevalent so try and find one from those years. the only difference is the axle diameter but if i get the chance to swap mine i just might do it. That sounds like a fun car with all that HP, about 40-60 more then my bone stock GTS and i can only imagine what a huge difference that would make.
i took my car out last night and it was fast enough everywhere but up hill. we found some great roads out in whatcom county and are getting to know them a bit. some fun hill climbs and a ******* gravel pit that i bend my fenders on EVERYTIME. i dont know about where you live but 14' tires are a little rare around here. they arent exactly falling from the sky. send some pictures of the corolla to me or post them, i am stoked to see your project.

Noah [email protected]
 

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>So, if you're contesting a championship, you need that
>country's license, and need to comply with that country's
>preparation rules. If you're just running for fun and
>experience, you can run under your home country's rules and
>license.

One slight error: a Canadian can contest SCCA championships on their CARS license (they do have to have SCCA membership).

Adrian
 
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