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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My friend and I are picking up an abandoned project Saturday- 74 Manta. Thing just screams "rally car" to me. Seems like they got a good bit of rally history...
so you all know where I'm going with this... advice/websites/parts dealers- anybody got any cheap Manta stuff or know what is important concerning these? Will probably get it running+tuned and smash it around through a couple rallycrosses before caging or putting real money into it, if we even get it going. Will post the now unknown condition of this basket case Monday if anybody's interested...







http://www.treesandturtles.com/
 

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
Joined
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153 Posts
There's John V. on this list that can help you out I'm sure. You can also contact me off-list, I owned an Opel parts supply business until a couple years ago, and know all the shops that still import/sell part for these cars. None selling rally-specific parts off the shelf unfortunately, but there's 30 years of rally know-how for these cars available still.

Bob
[email protected]
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
Joined
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1,633 Posts
>My friend and I are picking up an abandoned project
>Saturday- 74 Manta. Thing just screams "rally car" to me.
>Seems like they got a good bit of rally history...
>so you all know where I'm going with this...
>advice/websites/parts dealers- anybody got any cheap Manta
>stuff or know what is important concerning these? Will
>probably get it running+tuned and smash it around through a
>couple rallycrosses before caging or putting real money into
>it, if we even get it going. Will post the now unknown
>condition of this basket case Monday if anybody's
>interested...
>

Start surfing the British rally sites. Get your Demon-Tweeks catalog if you don't already have one.

Wilson
 

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400 flat to crest
Joined
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5,777 Posts
>
>Start surfing the British rally sites. Get your Demon-Tweeks
>catalog if you don't already have one.
>
>Wilson

Sorry, Wilson, even when the cars were current, UK wasn't really the place for Opel stuff aside from Pete Maiden Cars. Too thickly infested with all those Escorts in MkI and MkII guise and even Minis.
Back in the late 80s the situation wasn't very good, I doubt if availability of this has gotten better.
The Opel/Vauxhaul XE16v motor is common but the old A chassi Mantas and Ascona were rare rare rare in UK as there was domestic market Vauxhaul variations, and they were old nails.

Yellowhammar,

Nope, Sweden is GM country and all Opel rally development took place in Sweden after about 1971 due to a long term support program from the GM importer.
It's still the place for Manta and Ascona A and B stuff, shocks are easy, rear ends are easy and cheap, and eventually if one builds a nice motor that's where to go for real rally cams and manifolds and exhaust, altho I import from the place that makes the best real rally exhausts for everything including the headers needed when making those CIH motors give 210bhp.

For springs get out to a wrecking yard and find som Volvo 144 frons and rears then come back here and we'll talk, you'll need real shocks and that over there only if you want actual gravel valved shocks.
You can call me between 10.00 and 10.00 PST

And get hold of Brian Kirby "Kartwheel", he knows some good old fashioned wrecking yard there in Pepsi-cola where there are plenty of Furrin cars.



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm so stoked! The Manta is gonna be sweet. Good floors, straight body, org wheels. Car is blue with the 1.9 4speed. Been sitting a lonnng time and the interior's thrashed pretty good, but that will mostly come out anyway. org dash so-so and org steering wheel. Definately will have to pull the tank hopefully it won't have to be replaced, just cleaned out well. Has a Holly on it but the org carb's in the trunk. Motor is not locked up but will take some coaxing to get running. I think this project has real potential for an H car.... whatever H is currently. Car actually did a lot of Road Rallyin on the 70's so kinda sorta maybe has some real rally miles logged. That's kinda a stretch for "actual rally history" but better than nothing I guess. :p

do I have gear ratio options? Didn't realize these were so GMish.. I thought the GM seatbelts were added..



;)
 

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400 flat to crest
Joined
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5,777 Posts
>I'm so stoked! The Manta is gonna be sweet. Good floors,
>straight body, org wheels. Car is blue with the 1.9 4speed.
> Been sitting a lonnng time and the interior's thrashed
>pretty good, but that will mostly come out anyway. org dash
>so-so and org steering wheel. Definately will have to pull
>the tank hopefully it won't have to be replaced, just
>cleaned out well. Has a Holly on it but the org carb's in
>the trunk. Motor is not locked up but will take some coaxing
>to get running. I think this project has real potential for
>an H car.... whatever H is currently.
Good Gp2 potential too.
Now that you have it start planning.
Compression Camshaft Carburetion in that order

Those motors are like 3.5:1 compression, the cams wipe the noses off the lobes badly at high miles and the carb you have, Holley Weber 5200 is a emmissions carb, a licence built Weber DFV 32/36.
Confirm the camshaft has lumps on it! Don't laugh, I've pulled camshafts outa CIH with 1 lump out of 8 looking like a cam, the rest looked like fuel pump eccentrics.

At rebuild time you will want bigger valves (they're easier and cheaper to find than standard junk) and stellite valve seat inserts in the head so your valves dont pound the seats with today's unleaded.
This is a must.

Youll also want whats called "Diesel locket" the oil pump cover from the diesel motor with the relief valve etc in the cover, this is an absolute.

And you'll want a clutch pressure plate with some clamp.

Remember springs front and rear from a Volvo 140 series, maybe Nick Polemi (sp) can help, or maybe Brian will READ that he supposed to look for a Volvo142 or 144 in the junk yard.

>do I have gear ratio options? Didn't realize these were so
>GMish.. I thought the GM seatbelts were added..
Yeah there are 5 speeds, although the favorite mod is to use Ford typ9 gearbox, since gearkits are 1/3 the cost. Typ 9 is a 5speed but if you didn't know it then you just wouldn't use 5th ever would you?
There ARE gearkits for the weenie GM box still, and Dave Clark never broke anything internal in his, we gots some way back and many different guys used them.

As for rear end ratio, there are all sorts of options but 13 and 14 inch tires boys typically want 4.75/4.88 and those do turn up alsong with plate LSDs

Budget for a quick rack and for 22mm rear wheel cylinders, and two electric Facet pumps and a BIG filter in the trunk.
>
>
>
> ;)





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

Black Rocket Rally Tires
http://www.blackrockettires.com/
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
Joined
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1,633 Posts

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
Joined
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153 Posts
>>I'm so stoked!
>
>Here's a Bilstein Rally Set-up:
>http://www.enem.se/katalog/ascona/index2.asp#stotdampare
>
>And how about bored out to 2.415 and using camaro flattop 20
>over 305 pistons (185 est. hp):
>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/470044

If you want more info on that engne buildup, just ask me. I wrote the original 'how-to' article on this buildup a few years back for one of the Opel clubs. Actual displacement is 2372 cc's, using .030" over 305 Chevy pistons and a welded/offset ground crank....


Alternatively, I have a set of 95.25 mm 10.5:1 compression Opel pistons I could let go.

Bob
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, ok it's been 5 months and I haven't done crap. My partner bailed on me so it's ALL mine now bwaaahaaahaa

I guess I waited him out haha.

I'll use this a a diary for the four year process it will take to get this going, or turn it into a classified ad. ;)

Now to find a place to stash it... my former partner was storing it and now I'm screwed cause I got like four dubs at the house and wife has already "capped" my on-site collection.

Hey Wilson- can I bring it to your house for a year or so till I finish my G5 car? :p
 

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Registered
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YH,

I told you're partner way back that he could put it at my house anytime.}>

(Ok, you can call it 'storing' it if you want - just make sure you bring the paperwork with it)

(edit below)

Hey Brian (KW) - whats the status on your car? I saw a used Xratty for sale in a small used car lot over in DeFuniak Springs. Stopped and got the info, but never sent it to you (who knows where it is now). Price looked a little too high for it's age/shape, but then again I'm no Mekur guy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well I got some pics that I'll post today hopefully that show the beast, If you're like me and will look and anything. :+

Can anybody pist pics/links of a 74 manta rallied back then or later with trim, stickers, doo-dads or whatever. I want to be true to the car's era and need some ideas. I was thinking white, but not sure... the car is org. blue and I will first clean that a bit and I might like the shade of blue better with 5 years of sitting off of it...

Thanks for to advise from before... I would like to see what I got on the org. block... I'd think it would be neato to run the org. block with a bumpstick and some hi-compression pistons. Can I do twin webbers or something instead of the Holly?

I just realized that I'm probably in trouble and need to go to "Construction" sorry...













Ahem: "THE H RULES ARE BOGUS, RANT-RANT-RANT.....WAIT.... WHAT WERE THE RULES AGAIN ON POST-HISTORIC?" :p
 

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400 flat to crest
Joined
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5,777 Posts
>Well I got some pics that I'll post today hopefully that
>show the beast, If you're like me and will look and
>anything. :+

>
>Can anybody pist pics/links of a 74 manta rallied back then
>or later with trim, stickers, doo-dads or whatever. I want
>to be true to the car's era and need some ideas. I was
>thinking white, but not sure... the car is org. blue and I
>will first clean that a bit and I might like the shade of
>blue better with 5 years of sitting off of it...

Hey it's YOUR car! Paint it like YOU want, it's really lame to meekly copy some paint scheme of some famous car and the drive it like a total nob.
I say maybe use an old paint scheme but shift the colors some so its clear it is inspired by the original, but not trying to imitate 100%.
>
>Thanks for to advise from before... I would like to see what
>I got on the org. block... I'd think it would be neato to
>run the org. block with a bumpstick and some hi-compression
>pistons. Can I do twin webbers or something instead of the
>Holly?
The bores are very hard wearing in the Oldpile block but still things like drooling carbies and sticky chokes can lead to a lot of raw fuel in the motor and assciciated bore wash down and wear.

So tear it down and see what you have, but plan on a set of pistons.
Now then here is an area which it would pay some good dividends to sorta copy what Opel did back then on the real nasty motors.
The Opel pistons have a compression distance of 45mm and a bore of 93mm for 1900 and and 95mm for the 1979cc.

That is an old early sixties think. It results in a very very heavy piston, and in Opels case when they've used a sorta short block, compromises somewhere and the where is in rod length.
In addition the OEM pistons are what are call 'slotted oil returns' which is a very weak design and to be avoided (seems Sub-a-rat figured out the comp height thing but not the slotted return thing, the heart of their motors are still junk.)

So when you check the bore and find its all wallowed out and tapered all to hell, bore the thing and get some pistons into it that have a shorter compression height, and at the same time junk those _failure prone_ (want photos????) stock, short rods.
I just sold a set of forged Ross pistons and Carrillo rods for Dave Clarks waaaaay bitchin Historic Ascona B and will be this week gathering the parts to do just what Opel did: aiming for a compression height of 30mm and 33mm, and rod length up from Opels silly 128mm cc-c to something more realistic like 139.7 to 144.8mm.

Recently I built a couple of Volvo turbo motors which started with old style 46mm comp hgt pistons (but Volvo has a very good tall block standard and stock 144 c-c rods {which weigh 865grams each!!!!ack!!})
and when we shoved in some lighter competition rods and 34.5mm compression hgt pistons I save over 480 grams per piston and rod combo. 454grams is a pound. Oiiii!**

Now you want some higher compression ratio if you wnat to use a fun cam but with the wedge shaped chamber, which is very open, either you mill the sheet outa the head (OK maybe 1mm), use pop top domed pistons and fear detonation, or use nice detonation resistant flat tops, and shove more cylinder volume into the head.
the 1897cc (1900) motors are 474.2cc per hole, the difference to a 2000cc would be 25.8cc more cyl. volume into the same old head volume and that would be a nice nice bump if done with no dome sticking up to disturb flame front and cause ping ping ping!!!

I will be ordering stuff for Dave Clarks motor to get the hunk of iron outa here, you might want to yank your motor, strip it and see what you got, and maybe get crap at the same time for some savings.

Then you should have compression in the mid to high 10:1s and that will allow an amusing cam.
And you do want at least 45 Webers
and something to replace the hideous cast iron manifold, and you will have to do something anyway when you junk the standard 2bbl manifold, they are bolted together and the only alternative is an injection exhaust manifold, and I know after I hit him with it, Dave sold one for about what I get the waaaaay nice rally headers in Sweden which is what you'll want.
>
>I just realized that I'm probably in trouble and need to go
>to "Construction" sorry...
Yeah you're right, the reigning hero/martyr of H class has stated I have never done anthing for Historic cars, even if all I have ever built has been old stuff.

Hey don't forget you'll want to find a Dana 30 rear axle, it seems there are some with pretty short gears standard like 4.56 or so.
People _were_ swapping things back then, they, unlike some, did not have their heads shoved up some dark orifice daily.


And Volvo 140 series front and rear springs to cut to length.

Oh, and you will want to port the hell out of the thing, saves a lot of weight!!

Hey i just weighed a Arias Opel piston and a CP Ford piston for a special which is shorter and smaller, but both 2000cc motors.
The Opel piston and pin weight is 645 grams, the Ford piston and pin 394grams=251grams, over half a pound!! Think that would wake up a motor to lose so much reciprocating weight?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ahem: "THE H RULES ARE BOGUS, RANT-RANT-RANT.....WAIT....
>WHAT WERE THE RULES AGAIN ON POST-HISTORIC?" :p
Hey the H rule were bogus, the current are a surrender.





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
>Can anybody pist pics/links of a 74 manta rallied back then or later with trim, stickers, doo-dads or whatever. I want
>to be true to the car's era and need some IDEAS.

Would not do a replica per se, I just wanted ideas. If'n I run H or something else, I want it to be/look somewhat period-corrctish (with myyyy 10 pieces of flair!) (spirit of the law and such)


http://www.treesandturtles.com/
:)
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
>Hey it's YOUR car! Paint it like YOU want, it's really lame
>to meekly copy some paint scheme of some famous car and the
>drive it like a total nob.

I'll be lame if I want to hahaha




>I say maybe use an old paint scheme but shift the colors
>some so its clear it is inspired by the original, but not
>trying to imitate 100%.

yes.





>>Recently I built a couple of Volvo turbo motors which
>started with old style 46mm comp hgt pistons (but Volvo has
>a very good tall block standard and stock 144 c-c rods
>{which weigh 865grams each!!!!ack!!})
>and when we shoved in some lighter competition rods and
>34.5mm compression hgt pistons I save over 480 grams per
>piston and rod combo. 454grams is a pound. Oiiii!**
>


Oi indeed..!




>Now you want some higher compression ratio if you wnat to
>use a fun cam but with the wedge shaped chamber, which is
>very open, either you mill the sheet outa the head (OK maybe
>1mm), use pop top domed pistons and fear detonation, or use
>nice detonation resistant flat tops, and shove more cylinder
>volume into the head.
>the 1897cc (1900) motors are 474.2cc per hole, the
>difference to a 2000cc would be 25.8cc more cyl. volume into
>the same old head volume and that would be a nice nice bump
>if done with no dome sticking up to disturb flame front and
>cause ping ping ping!!!
>
>I will be ordering stuff for Dave Clarks motor to get the
>hunk of iron outa here, you might want to yank your motor,
>strip it and see what you got, and maybe get crap at the
>same time for some savings.

Soon. Yes, motor is def coming out.




>
>Then you should have compression in the mid to high 10:1s
>and that will allow an amusing cam.
>And you do want at least 45 Webers
>and something to replace the hideous cast iron manifold, and
>you will have to do something anyway when you junk the
>standard 2bbl manifold, they are bolted together and the
>only alternative is an injection exhaust manifold, and I
>know after I hit him with it, Dave sold one for about what I
>get the waaaaay nice rally headers in Sweden which is what
>you'll want.






>
>Hey don't forget you'll want to find a Dana 30 rear axle, it
>seems there are some with pretty short gears standard like
>4.56 or so.

Dana 30's from the local Jeep climbing brigade, that'd be easy, no? Well, they probably wouldn't have the proper length




their heads shoved up some dark orifice daily.
>
you're bad.



>And Volvo 140 series front and rear springs to cut to
>length.

Cut??


>
>Oh, and you will want to port the hell out of the thing,
>saves a lot of weight!!

check.


>
>Hey i just weighed a Arias Opel piston and a CP Ford piston
>for a special which is shorter and smaller, but both 2000cc
>motors.
>The Opel piston and pin weight is 645 grams, the Ford piston
>and pin 394grams=251grams, over half a pound!! Think that
>would wake up a motor to lose so much reciprocating weight?
>>
>>
>>
>>Ahem: "THE H RULES ARE BOGUS, RANT-RANT-RANT.....WAIT....
>>WHAT WERE THE RULES AGAIN ON POST-HISTORIC?" :p
>Hey the H rule were bogus, the current are a surrender.
>

I haven't even looked.....car running first, I'll try not to do anything past that till I gather the groceries...

I'll kill this thread, JVL: Thanks, I might contact you about pistons and cams and probably a seal kit. I can't read the language.. I can probably get a header fab'd here.
 

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I went to check with the owner about what engine he has in it, but he is out of the Island at the moment. I was told it was an opel 1.8L, but I should be able to get a better answer later this week when I should be running into the owners brother. I know Reggie, the owner, also has a Chevette shell that he has talked about putting the engine into and running instead of the Manta.
 

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Four tree two remember Andrew
Joined
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1,633 Posts
>Now to find a place to stash it... my former partner was
>storing it and now I'm screwed cause I got like four dubs at
>the house and wife has already "capped" my on-site
>collection.
>
>Hey Wilson- can I bring it to your house for a year or so
>till I finish my G5 car? :p

John:

How wide is it? Serious question. My basement doors (old timey garage) allow me to squeeze my Golf in with literally about 1.5 inches on each side (wide mudflaps scrape). The Golf is at Ken's where it lives, although it spent a winter in my basement on jackstands being worked on.

I've got room, it just can't be seen in the driveway for any extended length of time (e.g. 2 weeks or more). This is because DJ's POS trailer (one that he doesn't use) sat in my driveway for literally over a year after CT 2002 (The trailer was big, black and ugly . . . and I mean Uggggggly), and my wife doesn't have a lot of tolerance after me being a car nut for over a decade. (When we moved into our first house, the Golf was up on stands in our carport for the neighbors to see for 2 weeks while I ran new hardlines and installed SS brake lines).

I've even got a bitchin set of dollys that would allow the unibody to be moved in and out of the garage at will. Ken's got a bender. I've got 220 in the basement.

Only caveat is being able to use it every once in a while.

Or if you want it to go free to a good home. ;)

Wilson
 
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