[Audi205]

OK,
Do we need to discuss a Historic class for 4wd?
The 20 year rule now covers some cars that are old enought and the 25 year rule is not far away.
What does enyone/everyone think?

Todd
#205
?OF COURSE SHE WON THE TALENT CONTEST, SHE PICKED HER SELF UP LIKE A BOWLING BALL!!!!? MXC

 

[AlanPerry]

>OK,
>Do we need to discuss a Historic class for 4wd?
>The 20 year rule now covers some cars that are old enought and
>the 25 year rule is not far away.
>What does enyone/everyone think?

Hey Todd! Read the rulebook ;-)

In the 2005 R-A book, H class cars must be at least 25 years old period. Historic AWD cars are allowed. H class cars have no restrictor requirement.

NASA has no Historic class, but has indicated that they are open to the idea.

I tried to get a discussion going on this a few months ago, but it didn't go too far.

alan

 

[Glenn Wallace]

What year is the Audi?

I avoided the exclusion of in-period 4WD from the new historic rules.

 

[Audi205]

The year it is biuld on is 1984.
But the other Audi up in Washington is older, I think.
I dont think the restrictor rule will be passed up, as it has been put up as a saftey rule.

?OF COURSE SHE WON THE TALENT CONTEST, SHE PICKED HER SELF UP LIKE A BOWLING BALL!!!!? MXC

 

[AlanPerry]

>The year it is biuld on is 1984.
>But the other Audi up in Washington is older, I think.
>I dont think the restrictor rule will be passed up, as it has
>been put up as a saftey rule.

Well, technically, restrictors are a class compliance item since they appear in Article 10. It needs to be in Article 5 or Article 6 to be a proper safety item.

I don't know, Todd. As much as I would love to see more H class competition, do you really want to be the test case for AWD H class cars and reconstructed replica H class cars? Ask Glenn about being the test case for FIA Appendix K eligible cars!

alan

 

[Audi205]

Its going to be a few years before we will have to finalize this so lets start thinking about it. Becuse it alwys takes 3 to make a class.
The first cars that will be old enough will be Audis then Loyal class Subaru's,followed by 323's and celicas.

As for the restrictor I dont think it will fly with out it, I but I have been wrong before.

?OF COURSE SHE WON THE TALENT CONTEST, SHE PICKED HER SELF UP LIKE A BOWLING BALL!!!!? MXC

 

[Glenn Wallace]

I'd be happy if some of the older G2 and G5 cars moved to H. I think I counted 5 or 6 eligible cars at OTPR.

 

[AlanPerry]

>I'd be happy if some of the older G2 and G5 cars moved to H.
>I think I counted 5 or 6 eligible cars at OTPR.

Maybe we could start administering it ourselves and award something to H eligible cars irregardless of the actual class that they entered.

alan

 

[custom1motorsports]

I think if there was something posted before the race about
running historic and having a class we might get more people.

So why is it that we have all these cars that are able to run in H class and nobody enters?

I would rather run in g2 at this time because I feel there is
no interest or advantage to running historic.

As for 4wd. if they keep the 20 year rule it is going to happen eventually so does this mean I can run the bug in historic.

mabe we could tweak the rules a little. ha ha


Chris

 

[AlanPerry]

>I think if there was something posted before the race about
>running historic and having a class we might get more people.
>
>So why is it that we have all these cars that are able to run
>in H class and nobody enters?

I think it is a chicken and egg situation. It is also lack of awareness, particularly lack of awareness of the new rules for 2005.

Then again, I couldn't even get a 'H' decal from R-A when I got my number backer package.

>I would rather run in g2 at this time because I feel there is
>no interest or advantage to running historic.

Sure there is an advantage - a likely class win ;-)

>As for 4wd. if they keep the 20 year rule it is going to
>happen eventually so does this mean I can run the bug in
>historic.

The rule is 25 years now. See what I mean about lack of awareness of the 2005 rules.

alan

 

[custom1motorsports]

>>
>The rule is 25 years now. See what I mean about lack of
>awareness of the 2005 rules.
>
>alan
>


I agree, It only took about a year and a half for scca to send me there last rule book.


Chris

 

[AlanPerry]

BTW, I wasn't being critical of you. I was just commenting on the general lack of awareness.

If you look at the H class rules from 2003 to 2004 to 2005, you will find significant changes over those years. For example, in 2003, H class cars had to be built before 1972. In 2004, the age limit of the car was not specified. In 2005, the age limit of the car was set at 25 years or older. Plus, the H class rules are hidden at the end of the rulebook. I don't think anyone should be criticized for not keeping up with the changes.

alan

 

[custom1motorsports]

Thats a good point.

Also if you are not running in a class you dont keep
up on the rules. We all know how many people are running H right now.

I couldnt tell you all the rules for production, or any other
class. Well mabe g2 or open, but thats because I have actually run
in those groups.

I bet there would be some more intrest in historic if there was
some incentive to run it. like the cascade cup or something.
But we all know that this is rally and first you have to have the
entries before you can have a prize package.


Chris

 

[heymagic]

I was told by PRG that 3 entries would allow a NW H class. My 210 now belongs to Pat Harris is legal and both of the Fling Pu rotaries are old enough ( there goes the neighborhood) . The faster than heck old 510 from DooWops is legal also. I was surprised to not see H listed at OT since it is a legit RA class. Most of the 4wd stuff showed up around "87 with the 323 and Celicas. Besides Audi I can't recall any other AWD fast cars prior to '87. 1800cc Subes certainly weren't very popular as rally cars. The problem I see with AWD in H class is they are turboed and so much faster than the 2wd contenders , you may start losing 2wd cars. Maybe if I offer to furnish the trophies for H class ?? Gene

 

[custom1motorsports]

I think you would need to have two classes in historic
to be fair. one for 4wd one for 2wd.
but people already think there are too many classes so
what do you do?

Chris

 

[Glenn Wallace]

I got H stickers from R-A (I still had my old ones on).

Perhaps we need a "Historic Town Hall" before every event where we hand out H stickers?

> I would rather run in g2 at this time because I feel there is
no interest or advantage to running historic.

Well why not run in G5 or Open then? (ie isn't the idea of running in class to compete against other similarly prepared vehicles...)

 

[Bob Olson]

H only?

Just an idea...

Maybe in order to stimulate and assess the number of H entries allow H as an overlay (underlay?) to the other classes for now. Then we can start to see how many H entries there are that qualify and begin to establish H as a standalone class once people are confident that the numbers of competitors are there.

For example I'm HOPING to run a car that would qualify for H at Ojibwe, but right now my intent would be to run G2 just because it seems there would be a lot more competitors based on what I'm seeing in terms of H entries. I would love to run both H and G2, but unless I knew there was gonna be a bunch of H guys running I wouldn't run H only.

I would love to see a field of H-only entries, but I think we need to get this thing kick-started somehow. Maybe for the time-being allow it to be it up to the competitor whether they want to run H only or H plus another class.

I know this has been done in the past with dubious results, but there were other factors at play then as well...

Bob

 

[heymagic]

RE: H only?

Glenn's car is soooo neat, you wouldn't want to drive it 10/10's and try to find new bits every rally. If I build another H car it will be to have fun, slide some and still have a nice car later. My days of winning overall are long gone and it isn't much fun looking for irreplacable parts. I think a lot of people don't realise what is an H car. Most that I've talked to think it has to be stock, as in 25 year old P car. Maybe a flyer could be made up and handed out at events detailing the class specifics and what cars may be eligible. Gene

 

[Glenn Wallace]

RE: H only?

> For example I'm HOPING to run a car that would qualify for H at Ojibwe, but right now my intent would be to run G2 just because it seems there would be a lot more competitors based on what I'm seeing in terms of H entries.

And there will continue to be more competitors in G2 than H if everyone with an H eligible car thinks that way. (I'll move if a bunch of people are already there....)

> I would love to run both H and G2, but unless I knew there was gonna be a bunch of H guys running I wouldn't run H only.
> I would love to see a field of H-only entries, but I think we need to get this thing kick-started somehow. Maybe for the time-being allow it to be it up to the competitor whether they want to run H only or H plus another class.

Your points are reasonable -- people want someone to compete against and don't want to be in a class by themselves.

But you know what? I still compare my times to G2 cars, get some satisfaction from that, and I run in H. I just decided that rather than keep one foot in each camp, I'd put both feet behind H.

The way to bootstrap the class is for people with H eligible cars to compete in H if they feel strongly enough about furthering interest in historic cars.

Put it another way, if you run H, by yourself (like I have at times), what have you lost?

Glenn

PS we had 3 H cars at Rim 2003.

 

[Glenn Wallace]

RE: H only?

> Glenn's car is soooo neat, you wouldn't want to drive it
>10/10's and try to find new bits every rally. If I build
>another H car it will be to have fun, slide some and still
>have a nice car later. My days of winning overall are long
>gone and it isn't much fun looking for irreplacable parts. I
>think a lot of people don't realise what is an H car. Most
>that I've talked to think it has to be stock, as in 25 year
>old P car. Maybe a flyer could be made up and handed out at
>events detailing the class specifics and what cars may be
>eligible. Gene

Excellent points Gene. I am trying to drive my car as hard as I can without breaking it badly. So maybe 8/10ths. Certainly we're having some big sideways fun, and the stage spectators just love the car -- which is something I didn't really anticipate --- I thought people would just look at the car at Parc Expose and say "cool".

Great idea about a flier!!

Finding parts is tough -- and it looks like our gearbox has proven to be <100% reliable, so I'll have to have that fixed by the next event (we won't be at Dryad/Shitepoke due to a family commitment).

Glenn