[jake himes]

Man I sure haven't got the cash to be throwing down for some crutch 4wd turbo charged teched up geeked out undented rig that is worth more than Arvo paid for his house. If I did I would probably buy one, I'm sure they are fun.

I've started stages behind them 4wd cars. Man they take off quick. (I should get one someday. That would kick ass.) I feel like Farmer Joe plowing through the ruts and the sand in the 2wd rig as the starter waves us out and waits for us to leave. Rally is growing. Others are picking the fruits and we're the farmers.

I see my 2wd brothers and sisters hanging their heads as some shiny dude scratches a check and automatically can get from point A to point B faster. I think that the Woodner truck is the best trophy out there.

We should form a club, make a sticker or something. Sanfords suggested Calvin peeing on AWD. I guess they do drive a Chevy and all.

Let's have some suggestions for pride or a resurgence or renaissance of some sorts. Take that 2wd rig racing and go balls out. The table is open.

Here's my suggestion: When you beat a guy in a WRX or Lancer with a 2wd car in speedfactor for the race, you switch rigs next time you face each other. That would kick ass.

How about some other suggestions. Serious ones are OK too since I think we have a valid point of discussion here in spite of my inability to keep serious about any topic for more time than it takes me to fill out the subject field.

spinning like mad (for the spectators of course),

jake

 

[tom grossmann]

Jake how about a decal that has two little no circles: one cirle could have dollar bills the other would have 4wd. No Cash = No 4wd.
how about you just saying: I race 2wd because I have a day job.
Anyway be glad the manufacurers are in Open and Group N , if the ran G2/5 your budget would go through the roof.

Tom Grossmann

 

[Ben]

>We should form a club, make a sticker or something.
>Sanfords suggested Calvin peeing on AWD.

Carl Jardevall had a Calvin peeing on "AWD" on the back of his Volvo 740 Turbo Group 5 car. I don't know if Jay Streets still has it there, but folks got a kick out of it!

Ben

 

[mayhem83]

Be careful when you bash us in AWD cars. Some of us have paid our dues and then some in 2WD. You are relatively new to the scene but ask your old driver about the junk I used to drive.

You can however take great pride when you beat an AWD car on a stage and even more so when you beat AWD in the rally. Trust me, I know a cheap 2WD car can win a ClubRally overall.

As far as you "earning" my car if you beat me, not a chance in hell. That is why we have different classes. Be proud of your result (you should be!) but don't diminish my result just because I used AWD to get it.

Sincerely,
Mark Utecht

 

[Mike Hurst]

Missed that trend!

Some rally cars have AWD?

 

[jake himes]

Mark

I am not as new as you think. I may have even watched your first rally. I've just had to watch for a lot longer than I wanted to.

Mark, personally I think you have done it the right way and I feel you belong where you are. Nice going last weekend, eh. I'm proud of you.

But I still think it would be a great gesture for anyone who has a nice rig to share it with the less fortunate (hold my crutches if you would) if they happen to get beat by a 2wd. It's not that I have any hard feelings about it, I just wouldn't mind a turn. No harm in asking I figure.

Here is a good example. What if someone were to lend Matt Johnson or Jeremy Butts a WRX or a Lancer for a race or two. I personaly would probably drive to wherever the race was and cheer like a 50s teeny bopper at an Elvis concert. It would be fun to watch and a change of pace from some of the more conservative mid-pack driving.

 

[sparrott]

> Jake how about a decal that has two little no circles: one
>cirle could have dollar bills the other would have 4wd. No
>Cash = No 4wd.
> how about you just saying: I race 2wd because I have a day
>job.
> Anyway be glad the manufacurers are in Open and Group N ,
>if the ran G2/5 your budget would go through the roof.
>
> Tom Grossmann


Part of my graphics package will have "OPEN DIFF: The beauty of one-wheel drive".

Scott Parrott
G5 Neon (under construction)

 

[Trevor Donison]

RE: Missed that trend!

>Some rally cars have AWD?
And some actually have Turbos two, and less than 8 cylinders

 

[RallyVolvo]

How about not just a resurgence/rennaissance of 2WD but of REAR WD!
And yes, I have taken my RWD, open diff, 31 year old Volvo with basically stock suspension and beaten WRX's on several occasions in the DC rallycross series. But then, I'm not making car payments either, so that might have something to do with it... And I don't have scary turbo lag induced oversteer... Though Sumit's WRX was great fun when he let me take it out for a run, I was just sure to keep it up over 3K rpm.

Nick Polimeni
'71 Volvo 142E (daily driver/RallyCross)
"On a long enough timeline, everyone's survival rate drops to zero..."

 

[mayhem83]

>But I still think it would be a great gesture for anyone who
>has a nice rig to share it with the less fortunate (hold my
>crutches if you would) if they happen to get beat by a 2wd.
>It's not that I have any hard feelings about it, I just
>wouldn't mind a turn. No harm in asking I figure.

I would be happy to do just that if the "candidate" had cash money to cover replacement of the possibly damaged car. I understand where you are coming from but also ask you to understand that I work very hard at my day job to make the money it takes to run the car I currently have. I am not saying that you or others don't work just as hard (or harder) but if someone else were to wad up my car and offer a sincere "I'm sorry", I'm still out the car that I have worked years to obtain. You are asking me to offer that up.

By saying you wouldn't mind a turn, you are implying that you have a right to my car if you beat me. I strongly disagree. This is a hobby and I do it for fun. I could go faster but I would wreck more. That would cost more money, I would have to work harder at my day job, no more time for rallying, no more fun. It's a knife edge that we all try to stay on top of.

Now on the other hand, since the manufacturers seem to have money coming out of their ears (trannys at every service at some events, tire testing, etc.) Maybe if you beat their car in your p class car, they ought to give you a ride. They could certainly get their value out of it if used properly (We put this new guy in our car......).

Sincerely,
Mark Utecht

 

[Brian Scott]

I am all for 2wd rallying....but

I have a day job and yes I have an EVO as well with a nice service rig. That's pretty much it. No anything else, house, nice daily driver, etc.

I started in a Gp5 Charger and promptly rolled it the next day...fixed it and rallied again.

I choose to make sacrifices for my shiny AWD turbo, don't hold that against me.

Brian

 

[Adrian Wintle]

RE: Missed that trend!

>>Some rally cars have AWD?
> And some actually have Turbos two, and less than 8
>cylinders
Some actually use the front wheels for more than just steering... ;-)

 

[mgpsmith]

RE: Missed that trend!

The Ultimate Expression of 2wdism: Historic Class.
You don't feel quite as bad about the AWD cars in front
And you feel even better about those behind.

 

[Chris Gilligan]

And be careful what you wish for! Some of those 2wd cars are worth as much, if not more than my AWD car!

In addition, your logic suggests a correlation between vehicle value and potential speed. I don't think this is always the case. So, does this also mean that if us DSM guys ever beat an EVO or WRX, we should get a ride in their cars?

Why is it that the current trend lately is to bash those of us who rally AWD? Do you think we sit here and look down on 2wd drivers? No way - I was very impressed with some of the drives I've seen lately. I agree with Mark, that's what the class structure is for. If you're concerned with overall results, you have to think about the limits of your vehicle.

But I've said it before, and I'll say it again... If someone starts a GOOD 2wd spec class, with GOOD competition and structure, I'll be the first one in.

 

[SMS Rallysport]

Hey there...watch what you're calling junk. Trust me...I've had lots of comments on how nice my junk is.

 

[jake himes]

RE: What is the state of group 222 (forgot the name)

No bashing man, just a jovial envy. I know that discussion forums are an easy place to misunderstand folks and I don't want to misunderstand anyone or be misunderstood. I'm sure you guys have to scratch for every dollar like the rest of us. And I think you're all good folks. Plus my joking isn't always so deft. It usually gets me in trouble in real life too. <sheepish> I offer apologies to anyone who isn't smiling .

Buy anyway, what is the state of the Group 222 thingy that Derek Bottles was working on? Anyone know? Derek? I thought that was an interesting discussion. Let's rev it up and show our support.

Mark: I think you are on to something with the manufacturers and all. Just the type of idea I was looking for. You almost had some keys.

 

[mayhem83]

RE: What is the state of group 222 (forgot the name)

>No bashing man, just a jovial envy. I know that discussion
>forums are an easy place to misunderstand folks and I don't
>want to misunderstand anyone or be misunderstood. I'm sure
>you guys have to scratch for every dollar like the rest of
>us. And I think you're all good folks. Plus my joking
>isn't always so deft. It usually gets me in trouble in real
>life too. <sheepish> I offer apologies to anyone who isn't
>smiling .

I also apologize if I over reacted. Still suffering post-rally depression.

>Mark: I think you are on to something with the
>manufacturers and all. Just the type of idea I was looking
>for. You almost had some keys.

No way will I ever get a factory ride. I am too arthritic, bald, fat and old for a manufacturer to use as their poster boy. I just have to take my joy by beating them when I can as you should when you beat someone with better equipment than you have.

Mark

 

[KScheible]

Just a passing comment...as a former 2 wheel driver, I can say that I was impressed with several stage times that you turned in that old Omni that took a lot skill and balls! (I am still impressed and that was 3-4 years ago.) 4 wheel drive can hide a lot of driver errors, unless you first learn to get the most out of a slower car. This is why in my opinion you are doing so well. Rally on brother...Karl

 

[Topi]

RE: 2WD first

- 2WD cars should start first! Then it's a fair fight...
- 4x4 Turbos should pay 60% more entry fee for damaging the roads. 30 2WD cars make less mess than 5 300-400HP 4x4 turbos.
- 4x4s are fun...IF you got 350+ HP. Otherwise it's booring....2WD is fun always!

 

[Bob C]

"trannys at every service at some events"

You must be talking about the Subarus, they seem to break quite readily. They must use 1/4 turn fasteners on them to change them as fast as they do, on the other hand, practice makes perfect and they practiced at most services.

Our team (Hyundai)didn't have the "money out the ears" like you say and most times had one spare gearbox between the two cars. Good thing the EVO boxes don't break like the Subi boxes.

Bob Campbell
[email protected]
BCR Rallysport
Colorado Springs, CO