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Discussion Starter #1
2004 Rally Finland has National 2wd class, run after 70 WRC cars on Saturday, and it's the most popular:
- 150 entries
- Only 76 will be accepted, plus 20 reserves
- This is the result by demading spectators; They're boored by non sliding, like-on-rails 4wd, quiet Mitsu/Sube GrN parade and less than 20 real exciting WRC cars

***** GrF or National class entries:

Jorma Ala-Lahti (F) Jouko Vaskelainen Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Mikko Alava (F) Juha Humalamäki VW Golf GTi
Timo Bäck Anssi Ojanen Opel Manta
Pasi Hapulahti (F) Jukka Kaartinen BMW M3
Juha Hellman Tapio Järvi BMW M3 E36
Jukka Hiltunen Mikko Visuri BMW M3
Jani Hirvonen (F) Mikael Korhonen Honda Civic
Martti Honkasalo (F) Juha Tynkkynen Toyota Starlet
Petri Huttunen (F) Anssi Mäkäläinen Ford Escort
Jari Huuhka (F) Heikki Potinkara BMW M3
Kai Hyttinen (F) Juha Junnikkala Ford Escort Cosw. RS
Olli Häkkinen (F) Erkki Tyllinen Opel Ascona i 2000
Jari Inkilä Jari Hoivasilta BMW M3
Kari Isolehto Arto Sirpoma Renault Clio Williams
Kimmo Jalava Mikko Lukka Toyota Starlet
Saku Jokinen (F) Jari Nieminen Toyota Corolla GT
Erkki Kaikkonen (F) TBA BMW M3
Arto Kallioinen (F) Jorma Haapasaari BMW M3
Mikko Kalliomaa Tero Aspegren Volvo 240
Petri Karsikko (F) Raimo Kiviniitty Ford Escort Cosworth RS
Mikko Kauppinen (F) Matti Janhunen Toyota Starlet
Petri Kaura (F) Jyrki Saarto Volvo 240
Tony Ketopaikka Jukka Virtanen Ford Escort RS 2000
Esa Kettula (F) Jani Ala-Luhtala Toyota Starlet
Janne Kinanen (F) Janno Older Toyota Starlet
Toni Klemets Panu Plosila Opel Ascona B
Esa Kohtamäki (F) Hannu Rinne Opel Kadett GSi 16 V
Seppo Kopra Kari Korpelainen Opel Kadett GSi 16 V
Heikki Koskema (F) Rauno Hurskainen Toyota Starlet
Pentti Koskiniemi (F) TBA Toyota Starlet
Toni Kuhanen Tuomas Niemelä Toyota Corolla GT 1600
Alpo Kukkonen Jukka Lehtonen Ford Escort RS 2000
Erkki Kursu (F) TBA Toyota Starlet
Juha Laaksonen (F) Kalle Kankaanpää Toyota Starlet
Einar Laipak Indrek Jöeäär Ford Escort
Heikki Lappalainen TBA Toyota Corolla FX
Jari Latvala (F) Marko Mäkinen BMW 320 i
Tarmo Latvanen (F) Ville Pippuri Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Marko Lehtonen (F) Jukka Vihtalahti Ford Escort RS 2000
Sami Liljedahl (F) Markku Eerola Toyota Starlet
Risto Lokka (F) Kimmo Lokka Toyota Corolla FX-GT
Marko Mansikkamäki (F) Kimmo Mansikkamäki Toyota Corolla GT 1600
Rauli Marttila (F) Mari Nurminiemi Ford Escort RS 2000
Aarni Mertanen (F) Jukka Kukkonen Ford Escort RS 2000
Sami Mukkala (F) Tero Uusitalo Toyota Starlet
Jarkko Mustonen (F) TBA BMW M3
Marko Mäkiniemi Jari Perttu Ford Escort RS
Samuli Nevä (F) Reko Tissari Toyota Starlet
Ari Nousiainen (F) Tomi Karvonen Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Jarkko Ojala (F) Pasi Purtilo Opel Ascona
Esa Peltonen Veli-Matti Haljala Toyota Starlet
Janne Prusti (F) Risto Kivistö Toyota Starlet
Mika Rantasalo (F) Jouko Koski Opel Kadett GSi 16V
Mika Rautiainen (F) Esa-Tapani Leinonen Toyota Starlet
Petri Reinikainen (F) Lasse Miettinen MB 190 2.5-16V
Jere Rekola (F) Harri Jaakonsaari MB 190 E
Juha Rousku (F) Vesa Rousku Ford Escort
Harri Ruokonen (F) Pasi Törmä Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Pasi Rutanen TBA Toyota Starlet
Pekka Ruuth (F) Petri Lantta Volvo 240
Anssi Rytkönen (F) Petteri Rytkönen Ford Escort RS 2000 MK1
Tero Röyhkiö (F) Jukka Maja Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Juha Saksman Jukka Virtanen Opel Kadett
Janne Salonen (F) Jani Snäll BMW M3
Timo Sinisalo (F) Jussi Kulmala Toyota Corolla
Toni Sinkkonen (F) Henri Sinkkonen Volvo 240
Micael Sjöberg (F) TBA BMW M3
Jukka Soimetsä (F) Seppo Niinimäki Honda Civic VTEC
Pasi Taipale (F) Jari Moisio Opel Ascona
Satu Tanskanen (F) Jaana Sarén Ford Escort
Raimo Tunkkari (F) Ari Kiuru BMW M3
Sami Valme (F) TBA Toyota Corolla GT
Jari Valtaala (F) Asko Sairanen Toyota Corolla GT
Janne Varis Marko Myyryläinen Toyota Corolla 1600 GT
Marko Vartiainen (F) Juha Parviainen TBA
Juhani Vuori (F) Eero Närvänen Ford Escort RS 2000
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- Who may win? My bet is Esa Peltonen, Toyota Starlet (1580cc, 185HP) or Michael Sjoberg, BMW M3 (2500cc, 330HP) or Petri Kaura, Volvo 240 (2400cc, 250HP) or....
- An interesting entry; Jorma Ala-Lahti, Toyota Corolla GT. Jorma was TTE's top mechanic for Juha Kankkunen and Carlos Saenz.
- I'll be there to witness the action!
PS. Note one 2wd (RWD) Cossie Escort! Non turbo, as all others.
 

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Tiiii Hiiiii!!!! That's too cool!
I've been looking at other foruumiit and all the Finns are are giggling how exciting this is >>>>> something that LOOKS exciting!!!!

Here is just a typical quiet afternoon in the woods in the summer anywhere outside of Helsinki city limits
[http://www.jvab.f4.ca/FlyingmkII.jpg]


And this one is just too nice to not post
[http://www.jvab.f4.ca/escort-in-snow.jpg]


Oi Oi Oi Poiki!!!!



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Discussion Starter #3
- Why don't you - and all other 2-2-2 fans in the NorWest - join me in August?
- There's also an European Championship Historic Rally in Lahti two weeks later. They're expecting 200+ cars!
- Glenn could buy half a field, ship them here by Wallenius and make BIG $$$$.....
 

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Eh, just you vait just vun minnit. I just got pack from Hakkola family reunion in Eben Junction, U.P. and I was looking at family photo albums. I smell a prook trout!! Someting is very fishy. I tink tiss is little pit susspississ.

JV tat vinter photo is my great uncle Ar-r-r-r-rvo Haakola from back in 80s taking his nephew Jakkopi for little spin in woods by Munising.

And...that air shot was taken by me when I was changing a flat on Red Road north of Ishpeming one day. I don't know who it was but that was a few years back when Marquett, MI hosted Finnfest USA. Now that I tink of it there were a lot of cars taking jumps all over during Finnfest that year.


Seriously, though. Group F. Nice class.





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>John Vanlandingham
>Seattle, WA. 98168
>
>Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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Oi Oi Jakopi Himealeinen when da penni gunna drop and you learn where da fun is and get some sorta rwd car? Some a dem Ovlovs were made in good ol' Suomi, or if ya get any of dem made in Ruosti made in the 70s or 80s ders a big chance it was put togetter by da poikis from back in Soumi who were helping all dem 'svensk bögisar' who were all too tired out from dancin that silly Disco wit each udder till 4 am.
Everboddy know dem Swedes ain't got no SISU!

Lookie what Ari Vatanen drove in 1000 Lakes 1987!


John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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You gonna build me a RWD tire spinner? You know I'm gonna start a thread about group F pretty soon when things get slow. It's gonna say stuff like "Native classes beware of the new exotic terror Group F that will outcompete you in your silly little niche HAHAHAHAHA. The F stands for Finns, Foresters, Fun, Sauna, and Find yourself in a simpler, better, rally state of mind, and OH yeah Holy F this thing is Fast"
 

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Hej Jakopi Himesialainen lookie here

>You gonna build me a RWD tire spinner? You know I'm gonna
>start a thread about group F pretty soon when things get
>slow. It's gonna say stuff like "Native classes beware of
>the new exotic terror Group F that will outcompete you in
>your silly little niche HAHAHAHAHA. The F stands for Finns,
>Foresters, Fun, Sauna, and Find yourself in a simpler,
>better, rally state of mind, and OH yeah Holy F this thing
>is Fast"
Dis is da answer Poiki!
http://www.jvab.f4.ca/se1volvo.jpg

Its way more fun AND ultimately way more affordable

http://www.jvab.f4.ca/sevolvo.jpg


The points about closer competition, affordable real competition cars, more practice begin to come together, and here is an answer





John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Hej Jakopi Himesialainen lookie here

Ja Janni

I got one problem with going to RWD right now. My dang Skintra finishes so many dang races it's like a good woman who starts dat sauna fire every night that I just can't bring myself to leave her even though she is maybe not the prettiest car around. I know my smile is would be wide and proud like a father of a child graduating Salolampi and that stern, stubborn finnish look on my face melts away with RWD but I just can't leave her.

I could cheat on her though.

Let us talk in a revolutionary sense about what the common people want and the myths about how they can and cannot get what they want.

I see more people casting a skeptical eye at their high$ per racing mile Imprancers that don't even light the sauna fire for them and talking about one makes and closer competition and tis stuff I think that the time is almost ripe for Group F to mobilze the old Corollas and Volvos out of Arvo's farmfield and tat Rabbit by Juha's saunavoodshed so they can bring the Scandanavian dream home to the stage roads of Yankeeville USA. The tide is growing. Just wait until the DIVISIONAL races at POR are chock full of competitive 2wd cars that are gonna move in on that top 5 real estate like Cousin Eddy and chust stay der squatting. The tide is turning slow but financial pressures and the peoples' love of the freedom of good cheap well driven cars that can be driven hard and sometimes smashed up and raced again (thank you Sisu Passi)with lots of work but not much $$$ is gonna bring about a revolution once they see all our fun and our real life handshakes with Finlanders in the Copper Country at POR.

It is truly a ratio of post rally weekend happy units compared to resources forgone to race units. Drop the units and you just have a number. It's a good number or a bad number. I want mine to be good.
 

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RE: Why? How?

So, why is GrF so popular? Actually, that's kind of a no-brainer. Fast RWD cars driven with exuberance and billions of rabid spectators to see them.
To rephrase my question: When compared to GrF, Gr5 looks positively anemic. What is it about the two different sets of circumstances that makes the classes so popular, or unpopular?
Is it simply the fact that they're in Finland and we're in the US, y'know, something about rally heritage, and all that? Seems to me that if the answer to that is yes, them we are already admitting that we can never make rally popular in this country (because if crazy-driven RWD can't do it, no one can).
Anyways, y'all think about that, I'd like to write more right now, but I gotta go borrow a car before work.
 

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RE: Why? How?

I think it has something to do with the level of competition, people wanting to improve their ability, something to be gain-sponsorship maybe a ride.

I'm sure it also has something to do with, as Rauno Altenon (spel) put it, "in the past in Finland a man is only truely a man if he can drive fast."

Economics dictate inexspensive. Popularity of the sport and country size allow for many events which means driver/team skills improve.

In the USA until we can keep costs down and have at club level events every 2-3 weeks even if the events are 20-40 miles in length the sport will stay small. The cost of building and maintaining a car to run a half a dozen weekends a year just isn't worth it to many.
 

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RE: Why? How?

Yes BUT!!
Clearly there is a difference in that those thousands of Finns aren't too worried about building an older shell, and in fact probably look at it as an advantage, since older cars oddly enough cost less, and as is pointed out elsewhere when the initial donor car costs a couple of hundred Euros, that leaves 4 or 5 or 7 or 15 thousand Euros left for the way beeeeching things that make the cars GO FAST.
That is the question iddnit?

How good a car could many people build who are now in rather expensive and delicate Sububishis and Mitsuburus, and how much do they hold back knowing how much a prang will cost?

Hey Sean, I got #####ed out when I said I'd give you a #####slap, you going down to Wild Waste?
Maybe I can smack you then, OK?
Will you be wearing the same ol funky dress you normally do? (Normally??? ) er _USUALLY wear?



John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
 

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RE: Why? How?

Yes of course I will be there to see the happenings. It may be time to change to fall "dress" what with the cooler temps.

When are you heading down?
 
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