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I wonder what total mileage they'll be shooting for with Wilson Mills shortened to 4 miles! In 2001 it was only about 100 miles in 8 stages. Which IMHO is too short. Hopefully it won't be another short one.
 

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Dirt surfer
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Whatever MFR may lack in overall mileage, it more than makes up for in the toughness of those miles.

As I recall, last year several teams left significant chunks of their cars here and there in the Maine woods...like a wheel, a tire, a brake disc, & pieces of bumper cover (that would be us), plus numerous upside-down rally cars (that would be certain other Irish and Yank culprits, who will go nameless here) }>

Sounds like some good changes for 04: parc expose moving to Mexico Rec park will save a major traffic jam early on; and not having a big prize fund keeps us from getting spoiled!

Cheers, see ya out in the dust and/or mud of Maine.

Dave G
Co-Pilote and Chief Tow Strap Deployment Officer
lastditchracing.net
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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I'm sorry to see the news that Jean-Georges has been displaced from his throne by Rally America. If the SCCA now requires Rally America to do the scoring (and I don't know that to be true, but am assuming) I don't understand why they haven't hired Jean-Georges.

No offense to the Doug et al, let alone any of the hard-working folks in the Rally America truck, but what more could we want than the best? I'd rather that Rally America uses it presumably limited resources to further improve its incredibly promising live updates, or work to secure better media coverage of the SCCA series.

Now dismounting soapbox, returning to peanut gallery.

On a lighter note, c'mon Pete, post the Real McCoy! Mean John Ashcroft is not here to bust your balls abt a few cheeky monkeys. :)

Best - Isaac
 

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Faster Mabricator
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Scoring

>I'm sorry to see the news that Jean-Georges has been
>displaced from his throne by Rally America. If the SCCA now
>requires Rally America to do the scoring (and I don't know
>that to be true, but am assuming) I don't understand why
>they haven't hired Jean-Georges.

The update does say that "officials of the ESRC will do the scoring of the ESRC event."
Since NASA has provided Jean-Georges' scoring for each of the previous ESRC events, hopefully he'll be there doing just that.
 

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don't cut
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>I'm sorry to see the news that Jean-Georges has been
>displaced from his throne by Rally America. If the SCCA now
>requires Rally America to do the scoring (and I don't know
>that to be true, but am assuming) I don't understand why
>they haven't hired Jean-Georges.
>
snip

As I read the release, Jean-Georges charges for his services. Rally America doesn't. In other words, this is a function of the golden rule.
Richard
 

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Scoring

>As I read the release, Jean-Georges charges for his
>services. Rally America doesn't. In other words, this is a
>function of the golden rule.

There is another saying that goes, "you get what you pay for". Jean-Georges is the best and deserves to be paid for his service.

I thought the golden rule was something such as treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself and I don't see how it can be applied in this case.
Which golden rule are you refering to?
 

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don't cut
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RE: Scoring

Them with the gold makes the rules. }>

Of course, in this case, there is no gold to pay for the best.

Richard
 

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1973 WRC POR
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RE: Scoring

>I thought the golden rule was something such as treat others
>as you'd like to be treated yourself and I don't see how it
>can be applied in this case.
>Which golden rule are you refering to?

"He who has the gold rules."

Doug Woods
 

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don't cut
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RE: Scoring

>>I thought the golden rule was something such as treat others
>>as you'd like to be treated yourself and I don't see how it
>>can be applied in this case.
>>Which golden rule are you refering to?
>
>"He who has the gold rules."
>
>Doug Woods
Another way of phrasing it.
 

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RE: Scoring

>So what is that Jean George does that is better than what
>Rally America does?

Morgan:

I attend Canadian events as a spectator and steward. I have not been to a recent SCCA event. I follow the results of both series on the internet.

From an internet perspective, they both perform similar functions. Jean-Georges has been doing scoring for quite some time now so his programs work very well and he is quite efficient at calculating and posting scores as the rally progresses. In particular, he will post scores as a stage is being held so you can see partial results and not have to wait for the entire stage to be run, then scored, then posted.

I have noticed a large improvement in the Rally America scoring recently. Sometimes the internet posted scores take a while to appear, but this may be due to local logistics. I particularly like the format of the Rally America scoring, where one can pull up a map of each of the stages. This really helps those of us who have not been to the events to see what the stages "look like".

In terms of on event-scoring, Jean-Georges is really quite amazing. One can walk into the scoring area and walk away with printouts of the most up-to-date results. Or, you can sit down at computer terminals and query the scoring system to get on screen results in any format you are interested in. The service crew members really appreciate this facility as they can obtain results throughout the rally while waiting for their cars to return. The co-drivers also like this facility since they can immediately obtain comparative results as well as look for any timing discrepancies.

I am not sure what the on-event scoring is like with Rally America but I hope to find out when I visit the Maine Rally this year to spectate.

Doug Woods
 

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RE: Scoring

>
>I attend Canadian events as a spectator and steward. I have
>not been to a recent SCCA event. I follow the results of
>both series on the internet.
>
>From an internet perspective, they both perform similar
>functions. Jean-Georges has been doing scoring for quite
>some time now so his programs work very well and he is quite
>efficient at calculating and posting scores as the rally
>progresses. In particular, he will post scores as a stage
>is being held so you can see partial results and not have to
>wait for the entire stage to be run, then scored, then
>posted. >


Admittedly, I don't look at the internet scores since I am usually at the event, but I believe RA is doing that as well. Any delays that I have experienced while there, have been the results of logistics and/or improperly filled out time cards that take time to be deciphered, or other unforseen situation.


>
>In terms of on event-scoring, Jean-Georges is really quite
>amazing. One can walk into the scoring area and walk away
>with printouts of the most up-to-date results. Or, you can
>sit down at computer terminals and query the scoring system
>to get on screen results in any format you are interested
>in. The service crew members really appreciate this
>facility as they can obtain results throughout the rally
>while waiting for their cars to return. The co-drivers also
>like this facility since they can immediately obtain
>comparative results as well as look for any timing
>discrepancies.


RA has also been providing printouts and a touch screen computer terminal with results as well.

I am not saying there is no room for improvement, I am just wondering where this Jean-George favoritism and comments like "you get what you pay for" come from, when in fact they provide similiar service and RA is providing much more, like the maps, photos, actual accounts from the teams, timing clocks, and more?

As far as I know the SCCA is not forcing organizers to use RA, Rim of the World is using their own timing and scoring.

The idea is to have some continuity among all the events and to give Rally fans a common place to go for results and information for every event. I know I would give up if I had to figure out each time which different website is going to have the latest info
 

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RE: Scoring

JG provides more info and graphs.

Basic Results All stages in details using FIA progressive results type.

General results (Newspaper format: time, car, class, name and city).

Details
Results NASA Rally results (Competitors format: Number, difference, gap, name, car, position/class).

Details results (Number, name, position/class, stage time, roads penalties).
General position change in progressive mode using Excels graph format.

If you really want more details By Class ( Crew, car, time and margin).

All stages in details (Diff., gaps, class pos, % and overall pos.)

Retirements (why and where).

Penalties (road and time penalties, chicanes).
General position change in graph format. (It shows the general position change in the rally using graphic lines)
Inscription list
All the results in CSV format (Speed factor, Excel, database)
Speed factor

What I'd like RA to add is similar graphs and at least competitor hometown's in the entry list and results. Knowing the hometown helps ClubRallyist know who from their division they may be competing against for out-of-division points.

Surf around on http://www.rallyscoring.com and you'll see the detail JG provides.

RA Live updates is nice except for all the JoeBob competitor says hi to his dog at home type stuff.
 

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RE: Scoring

Regardless of people saying hi to their dog, I do like the RA style of posting similiar to Andy Shupacks commentary in the past.
 

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RE: Scoring

Combine the commentary and pic's of Rally-America with the scoring from JG and it would be perfect. They both are very good.:)

Rob
 

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RE: Scoring

> Any delays that I have experienced while there,
> have been the results of logistics and/or improperly
> filled out time cards that take time to be deciphered,\
> or other unforseen situation

"Other unforseen situation" are quite common in rallies. 3 majors incidents happened at New York rally, results were not delay because I was able to manage all those situations with my 25 years of experience.

> As I read the release, Jean-Georges charges for his services.
> Rally America doesn't.

I charge for my service but it is not enough to cover for the days I spend off the job for the rally process. By the way, I do not have that problem anymore :(, if you know somebody who needs some good "System Integration Consultant", give me a call, I am ready to travel ;).

Jean-Georges :), 514-952-7981
[email protected]
 

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RE: Scoring

>Combine the commentary and pic's of Rally-America with the
>scoring from JG and it would be perfect. They both are very
>good.:)
>
>Rob

Right!

Like my grandfather asks: "what do you want, butter on yer pie?"

Yes, yes I do; I want both. I want Rally North America.

More:

Rally America is doing yeoman's work bringing standardization to the SCCA series. No argument from me. This is a kind of pump-priming investment which will pay dividends, both at the events, and for folks watching over the web, and in ways we can't even imagine yet. I'm sure Rally America will keep getting better and better as the pump starts drawing.

And they're well positioned to be innovative: I'd be surprised if they're not already musing about video updates (trivial), GPS telemetry, a la Virtual Spectator (non-trivial), or RFID timing (mezzo mezzo). But of course any of that takes at least some money to accomplish.

Och, money.

Without getting into the whole chicken-egg sponsor/factory prole v. promo tipping-point brouhaha that unfortunately continues to divide the NA rally community... the value of the work that Rally America (and the SCCA) are doing should not be underestimated, and is predicate to the continued growth of this sport on the national stage. And we gotta get there before we're going to have any money to make this sport be more, better. Without standardization and centralized administration and promotion, we're going to continue to watch our rallies on Randy Zimmer's webpage, and not on ESPN. Which is a crying shame, much as I love hearing Mal Swann crying like a little girl.

(Sorry Mal, couldn't resist.)

So what is all this Jean-Georges favoritism about then?

Well, I don't think it's favoritism; it's rationality, to the extent that we'd all benefit from a synthesis of what Rally America and Jean-Georges do, so I would prefer to combine and utilise their respective strengths, rather than make this zero-sum; it's the fear of change, in that (as has been explained elsewhere in this thread) there are a lot of people here who've come to depend upon Jean-Georges, and benefit from his years of experience, and the resulting product and process refinements, and of course the elbow grease of his volunteer wranglers d'ordinateurs; and, I think, it's the old saw: if it ain't broke...


But what I do know? I live in Manhattan, and haven't had dirt in my teeth for months.

Best - Isaac
 

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RE: Scoring

I am sure RA would welcome J-G to do the timing and scoring, so you can send your donations to pay his fee to PO Box....

But wait, if he is getting paid to provide his service, I wanna get paid too, and I am sure everyone else at RA would like to get paid for their work and time off from work... please double your donation;-)

Hmm, maybe someday, thought we were getting close there for a while


And Isaac, I heard you had some dirt in your teeth a few weeks ago:p
 
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