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Information about Wild West PRB inquiry is at
http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/WW02BdofInquiry1.pdf
thank you
-george
http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/WW02BdofInquiry1.pdf
thank you
-george
2002 Wild West Inquiry
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1,385 Posts
Thanks, George, for letting us know about this. I hope this will defuse the situation.
Bulletin #: PRCB 091802
To: All ProRally Competitors
From: Kurt Spitzner ? SCCA Performance Rally Department Director
cc: SCCA Performance Rally Board
SCCA ProRally Manufacturers Council
Subject: Board of Inquiry formed
Entrants Affected: All ProRally Championship entrants at Wild West
Overview:
The SCCA Performance Rally Board has formed an official Board of Inquiry with the charge of investigating alleged infractions by competitors, the actions of the stewards, and the appeal process.
The decisions of the Board of Inquiry shall be final and binding.
SCCA ClubRally entrants are not affected by this Board of Inquiry.
Implementation Date/Event: Immediate.
Notes: None.
Bulletin #: PRCB 091802
To: All ProRally Competitors
From: Kurt Spitzner ? SCCA Performance Rally Department Director
cc: SCCA Performance Rally Board
SCCA ProRally Manufacturers Council
Subject: Board of Inquiry formed
Entrants Affected: All ProRally Championship entrants at Wild West
Overview:
The SCCA Performance Rally Board has formed an official Board of Inquiry with the charge of investigating alleged infractions by competitors, the actions of the stewards, and the appeal process.
The decisions of the Board of Inquiry shall be final and binding.
SCCA ClubRally entrants are not affected by this Board of Inquiry.
Implementation Date/Event: Immediate.
Notes: None.
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946 Posts
>Thanks, George, for letting us know about this. I hope this
>will defuse the situation.
Depends on who the "Inquiry Board" is composed of. If it is Kurt and a couple of Manufacturer representitives, I don't see this resolving the situation.
I think the Manufacturer lawyers are going to be involved before this is all said and done.
>will defuse the situation.
Depends on who the "Inquiry Board" is composed of. If it is Kurt and a couple of Manufacturer representitives, I don't see this resolving the situation.
I think the Manufacturer lawyers are going to be involved before this is all said and done.
Joined
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5,777 Posts
Is the inquiry about Spitzner speeding and passing on curves?
Randy, look maybe there is hope yet!
>
>Overview:
>The SCCA Performance Rally Board has formed an official
>Board of Inquiry with the charge of investigating alleged
>infractions by competitors,
the actions of the stewards, and
Look at this, do you think this in in reference to "der Spitzner's" witnessed speeding and passing on the double yellow stripe?
Could we actually see that scene from "Blazing Saddles" soon?
Will "der Spitzner" be a man and own up to his actions?
What should an appropriate penalty for him be?
Arkebusierung? Oder was?
>
>The decisions of the Board of Inquiry shall be final and
>binding.
Unless paragraph 2.4 under "Whatthephuque, we can make rules upon notification " is found to have been operative
with subparagraph 2.4a "upyournose official permission for MFG cabalists to do whatever they want requirement for publication is waived"
You know the beloved "Double Secret Probabtion"
>
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
Randy, look maybe there is hope yet!
>
>Overview:
>The SCCA Performance Rally Board has formed an official
>Board of Inquiry with the charge of investigating alleged
>infractions by competitors,
the actions of the stewards, and
Look at this, do you think this in in reference to "der Spitzner's" witnessed speeding and passing on the double yellow stripe?
Could we actually see that scene from "Blazing Saddles" soon?
Will "der Spitzner" be a man and own up to his actions?
What should an appropriate penalty for him be?
Arkebusierung? Oder was?
>
>The decisions of the Board of Inquiry shall be final and
>binding.
Unless paragraph 2.4 under "Whatthephuque, we can make rules upon notification " is found to have been operative
with subparagraph 2.4a "upyournose official permission for MFG cabalists to do whatever they want requirement for publication is waived"
You know the beloved "Double Secret Probabtion"
>
John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168
Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
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2,953 Posts
inquiry?
Well,
I just like the fact that the SCCA's taking an interest in the sport enough to look at what has been going on here. There are many dedicated people looking after the club and want to do what they think is right.
I'll be seeing some of them at Mid-Ohio.
rz
Well,
I just like the fact that the SCCA's taking an interest in the sport enough to look at what has been going on here. There are many dedicated people looking after the club and want to do what they think is right.
I'll be seeing some of them at Mid-Ohio.
rz
RE: inquiry?
you have to love Sloop-John V!
"upyournose official permission for MFG cabalists to do whatever they want requirement for publication is waived"
I mean who else outside the 1st grade says "upyournose?"
...but seriously people, a national resource here.
(laughingly) Noah
you have to love Sloop-John V!
"upyournose official permission for MFG cabalists to do whatever they want requirement for publication is waived"
I mean who else outside the 1st grade says "upyournose?"
...but seriously people, a national resource here.
(laughingly) Noah
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2,953 Posts
RE: inquiry!
Went to Mid-Ohio today and talked w/ some SCCA types.
I don't know if what I was told was on or off record so I'll say this...
There's a lot of interest in what has gone on in rally and the results are not final for WW and the plot is thicker than anyone (I)thought.
Whomever is writing a bunch of press releases lately to show how compasionate rally is, is in the spotlight.
VERRRRY Interesting.
rz
by the way, the friend I went to see race got a 60 sec penalty for not staying in line at the start and got bounced from 3rd to 13th, I guess everyone I know is a baddie, (like me).
Went to Mid-Ohio today and talked w/ some SCCA types.
I don't know if what I was told was on or off record so I'll say this...
There's a lot of interest in what has gone on in rally and the results are not final for WW and the plot is thicker than anyone (I)thought.
Whomever is writing a bunch of press releases lately to show how compasionate rally is, is in the spotlight.
VERRRRY Interesting.
rz
by the way, the friend I went to see race got a 60 sec penalty for not staying in line at the start and got bounced from 3rd to 13th, I guess everyone I know is a baddie, (like me).
G
Guest
·RE: inquiry!
tell us more..........
tell us more..........
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946 Posts
Just wondering if this "inquiry" will be done someday?
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542 Posts
>Information about Wild West PRB inquiry is at
>http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/WW02BdofInquiry1.pdf
>
The inquiry is moving forward. As with other things with the SCCA, your voice is indeed heard, but if YOU are not willing to help implement solutions, then you are just whining.
Some, if not all, teams have received incident reports to be filled out. They only want to hear from the people that WITNESSED either Lovell or Millen leaving the service area on Saturday morning. And any reports you may have made to officials.
They want you to write down what you saw (the good, the bad, or the ugly). Then you have to get it back to them ASAP so they can conclude this issue. I would recommend FAXING it to SCCA (note that the Rally/Solo direct fax is not working) use 303-694-7391(fax)
Then put your signed hardcopy in the mail to the Board of Inquiry.
Mine has been submitted. Pe
>http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/WW02BdofInquiry1.pdf
>
The inquiry is moving forward. As with other things with the SCCA, your voice is indeed heard, but if YOU are not willing to help implement solutions, then you are just whining.
Some, if not all, teams have received incident reports to be filled out. They only want to hear from the people that WITNESSED either Lovell or Millen leaving the service area on Saturday morning. And any reports you may have made to officials.
They want you to write down what you saw (the good, the bad, or the ugly). Then you have to get it back to them ASAP so they can conclude this issue. I would recommend FAXING it to SCCA (note that the Rally/Solo direct fax is not working) use 303-694-7391(fax)
Then put your signed hardcopy in the mail to the Board of Inquiry.
Mine has been submitted. Pe
So yes, I understand that this is a ProRally inquiry board, not a general Performance Rally inquiry board, but why weren't the forms also sent to the ClubRally competitors? Are we less worthy of being witnesses than the ProRally competitors?
The incident happened really close to my service truck, and my service guys witnessed the whole darn thing, but because we're only ClubRally we don't even get to be a part of the process? Now I feel like a red-headed stepchild (no offense to red-headed stepchildren of either gender, it's just a phrase) of the rally family.
Great that you all are trying to come up with some justice, but shame on you for eliminating witnesses just because we can't spend the amount of money and time to be "professionals".
Grrr.... this whole thing leaves me glad I don't have to be labeled "ProRally"...
KT
The incident happened really close to my service truck, and my service guys witnessed the whole darn thing, but because we're only ClubRally we don't even get to be a part of the process? Now I feel like a red-headed stepchild (no offense to red-headed stepchildren of either gender, it's just a phrase) of the rally family.
Great that you all are trying to come up with some justice, but shame on you for eliminating witnesses just because we can't spend the amount of money and time to be "professionals".
Grrr.... this whole thing leaves me glad I don't have to be labeled "ProRally"...
KT
Well, there were crew people around, too...and spectators...and probably the guy delivering the porta-potties...hitting all these people could take awhile.
I suspect ignoring ClubRally competitors was an oversight. Send the PRB your observations...they'll read them.
Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
Bruce
I suspect ignoring ClubRally competitors was an oversight. Send the PRB your observations...they'll read them.Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
Bruce
Yes, there were.
For example my wife and son were almost run over (by their own account) by Lovell.
I have kept quiet about this long enough, in spite of the fact that I was seeing red for a very long time about it.
Dear SCCA, the word CLUB is a pretty simple concept and has nothing to do with politics. Lose the double standard. You are no longer the only game available.
Listen to the membership, for a change....
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - Open
For example my wife and son were almost run over (by their own account) by Lovell.
I have kept quiet about this long enough, in spite of the fact that I was seeing red for a very long time about it.
Dear SCCA, the word CLUB is a pretty simple concept and has nothing to do with politics. Lose the double standard. You are no longer the only game available.
Listen to the membership, for a change....
Matt Manspeaker
Seattle, WA USA
89 323GTX - Open
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542 Posts
>
>Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
>
Yes Kristen (and now Matt),
Fax your signed (or your crew's) observations to: 303-694-7391
I would assume that many Club competitors had not even arrived at service before Lovell and Millen had left. (Given a short 20 minute service interval, but it was delayed somewhat by the long "regrouping" control)
But your crew may have witnessed something. (that is what you are insinuating)
Get them to record what they saw, sign it, put down contact info, member # etc, and fax it in... You can include diagrams, home video, or anything pertinent. Must arrive before Friday. Pe
Pe
>Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
>
Yes Kristen (and now Matt),
Fax your signed (or your crew's) observations to: 303-694-7391
I would assume that many Club competitors had not even arrived at service before Lovell and Millen had left. (Given a short 20 minute service interval, but it was delayed somewhat by the long "regrouping" control)
But your crew may have witnessed something. (that is what you are insinuating)
Get them to record what they saw, sign it, put down contact info, member # etc, and fax it in... You can include diagrams, home video, or anything pertinent. Must arrive before Friday. Pe
Pe
>Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
Perhaps Kristen has a real grouse. If there was an oversight wrt requesting information from Club entrants, didn't her grievance just raise a level of awareness on the board?
There was never a public announcement requesting information from competitors or other participants at the rally. And given all the bad feelings surrounding the New World Order(TM), shouldn't we all be more sensitive in our communications?
Perhaps Kristen has a real grouse. If there was an oversight wrt requesting information from Club entrants, didn't her grievance just raise a level of awareness on the board?
There was never a public announcement requesting information from competitors or other participants at the rally. And given all the bad feelings surrounding the New World Order(TM), shouldn't we all be more sensitive in our communications?
G
Guest
·>>Grousing in this forum is unlikely to help with the inquiry.
It is the ONLY thing likely to help.
>There was never a public announcement requesting information
>from competitors or other participants at the rally.
Secretive organizations such as those governing ProRally are not interested in the opinions of the masses. This is why they pursue private communications rather than open forums for discussion.
Those faxing their observations to Denver should also make their observations public here. The minutes of the incident committee should also be made public.
It is the ONLY thing likely to help.
>There was never a public announcement requesting information
>from competitors or other participants at the rally.
Secretive organizations such as those governing ProRally are not interested in the opinions of the masses. This is why they pursue private communications rather than open forums for discussion.
Those faxing their observations to Denver should also make their observations public here. The minutes of the incident committee should also be made public.
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1,385 Posts
Witness Statements for ClubRallyists at Wild West
No ClubRally members listed? No great conspiracy involved... just a simple oversight. The board didn't think it would impact ClubRally competitors (no pun intended) so they didn't send out the forms to the club side of the house.
I just called Sean at the SCCA headquarters and asked him to fax you a copy of the witness statement. He said that he was directed not to send any further forms out, but that we as competitors can make copies for our crew members to complete.
He said you could also just write a letter and mail it to the address on the form. Since my copy of the witness form is at home, I can't give it to you here. (Can someone else help out here?)
I reminded Sean that the forms are due in very short order (this Friday, and I just got mine yesterday) and would like to fax it in. He said we can use the fax number on the form (if there is one) or fax it to 303.694.7391. You should still mail it in as well.
If you're a ClubRally competitor, you should also mention that even though the incident didn't affect your results, it might have affected your safety (if that's what you believe) or explain what other reason you're providing a witness statement.
Folks, there are potentially serious repercussions from these statements (good or bad, depending on perspective.) I hope and trust that people will all be diligent and straightforward in describing what they personally witnessed. I encourage you to write your statements as objectively and clearly as possible so no one is confused by what you're reporting you saw.
It is important that we provide the Board of Inquiry with the facts of the situation so they can reach a fair and appropriate decision.
John
No ClubRally members listed? No great conspiracy involved... just a simple oversight. The board didn't think it would impact ClubRally competitors (no pun intended) so they didn't send out the forms to the club side of the house.
I just called Sean at the SCCA headquarters and asked him to fax you a copy of the witness statement. He said that he was directed not to send any further forms out, but that we as competitors can make copies for our crew members to complete.
He said you could also just write a letter and mail it to the address on the form. Since my copy of the witness form is at home, I can't give it to you here. (Can someone else help out here?)
I reminded Sean that the forms are due in very short order (this Friday, and I just got mine yesterday) and would like to fax it in. He said we can use the fax number on the form (if there is one) or fax it to 303.694.7391. You should still mail it in as well.
If you're a ClubRally competitor, you should also mention that even though the incident didn't affect your results, it might have affected your safety (if that's what you believe) or explain what other reason you're providing a witness statement.
Folks, there are potentially serious repercussions from these statements (good or bad, depending on perspective.) I hope and trust that people will all be diligent and straightforward in describing what they personally witnessed. I encourage you to write your statements as objectively and clearly as possible so no one is confused by what you're reporting you saw.
It is important that we provide the Board of Inquiry with the facts of the situation so they can reach a fair and appropriate decision.
John
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122 Posts
This Club rally entrant got a form
I received a letter from SCCA asking for my personal account. We were entered as Club only. However, I had called and wrote to the SCCA that an inquiry should be performed by the SCCA. Maybe that is why I received a form.
While I was not a witness, our service crew member John Teeter was standing next to Dave Clark. I sent an e-mail to John asking him to send in his personal statement to the SCCA.
If any of you want a copy of the form, send me an email, and I will FAX it to you. My e-mail address is available if you click on the e-mail icon.
Paul Nelson
I received a letter from SCCA asking for my personal account. We were entered as Club only. However, I had called and wrote to the SCCA that an inquiry should be performed by the SCCA. Maybe that is why I received a form.
While I was not a witness, our service crew member John Teeter was standing next to Dave Clark. I sent an e-mail to John asking him to send in his personal statement to the SCCA.
If any of you want a copy of the form, send me an email, and I will FAX it to you. My e-mail address is available if you click on the e-mail icon.
Paul Nelson
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